RedRook | 2014-01-16 21:17:43 |
Hello all, RedRook here! It's been a little while since I've created a class. Here is a class I've had in my head for a while but never put down on paper. It is a little different so I would really like your help with this. Thank you! The Spirit Shaman taps into the Spirit Realm for insight & strength, allowing the spirits of the wilderness to guide her. She uses the power of ancient Spirit Totems to call upon the creatures of the Spirit Realm & Release them into the realm of the living to fight alongside her. Special: Release: For a Spirit Totem to be released certain circumstances must me met. Once the Release circumstance is met the Spirit Totem Releases the Spirit Creature. When a Release occurs the Spirit Totem disappears & is replaced with the Released Spirit Creature (just like Demon creatures). Spirit Shaman Class: Spiritual Harmony Cost: 0 Spell; Release Target Spirit Creature from its Totem immediately. Serpent Totem Cost: 2 Attack: 0 Life: 15; When Serpent Totem receives damage it deals 2 damage to the creature in the opposite slot. Release: When Serpent Totem's life falls below 7 it Releases Serpent Spirit*. *Serpent Spirit Cost: 2 Attack: 5 Life: 14; When Spirit Serpent is Released it deals 5 damage to the creature in the opposite slot. Deer Totem Cost: 3 Attack: 0 Life: 20; Each turn Deer Totem heals 1 life to its owner. Release: When Deer Totem's owner's Earth power reaches 9 or more it Releases Deer Spirit*. *Deer Spirit Cost: 3 Attack: 4 Life: 22; When Released Deer Spirit heals all other owner's creatures 6 life. Owl Totem Cost: 4 Attack: 0 Life: 14; When summoned Owl Totem increases by 1 its owner's lowest Fire, Water, Air, or Earth power. Release: When one of Owl Totem's owner's Fire, Water, Air, or Earth powers reaches 1 or less it Releases Owl Spirit*. *Owl Spirit Cost: 4 Attack: 4 Life: 27; When Released Owl Spirit increases by 2 it owner's lowest Fire, Water, Air, or Earth power. Panther Totem Cost: 5 Attack: 0 Life 30; Panther Totem's attack increases by 1 each turn. Release: When Panther Totem's attack reaches 4 or higher it Releases Panther Spirit*. *Panther Spirit Cost: 5 Attack: 7 Life: 32; No Abilities. Spiritual Discord Cost: 6 Spell; Deals 6 damage to the opponent & all opponent creatures & heals 6 life to caster & all caster's creatures. Bear Totem Cost: 7 Attack: 0 Life: 30; Bear Totem increases the attack of all other owner's creatures by 2 in the turn it is summoned. Release: When there are at lease 8 creatures on the board (including Bear Totem) it releases Bear Spirit*. *Bear Spirit Cost: 7 Attack: 8 Life: 30; When Released Bear Spirit deals 4 damage to all the opponent's creatures. Eagle Totem Cost: 8 Attack: 0 Life: 40; When summoned Eagle Totem increases its owner Spirit power by 4. Release: When Eagle Totem's owner's Spirit power reaches 8 or more it Releases Eagle Spirit*. *Eagle Spirit Cost: 8 Attack: 9 Life: 31; When Released Eagle Spirit reduces the owner's Spirit power by 4 & increases all the owner's other powers by 2. --- Notes: The Release mechanic works just a rebirthing effect - like Demon creatures being reborn. The Totem goes away & the new Creature takes its place. "Totems" are treated just a any other creatures, they are not special. If the conditions are right for a creature to be Released on the turn the Totem is summoned, the Release happens on your next turn. For example: If I summon a Deer Totem & my Earth power is already at 9, on my next turn the Deer Totem will Release its Spirit Creature. If a Totem is killed or destroyed before it can Release its Spirit Creatures... Sorry. It will not Release. A Totem can Release on the opponent's turn if the opponent triggers the Release circumstance. For example: If there are 7 creatures on the board & Bear Totem is in play, on the opponent's turn, if they summon a creature, the Bear Totem Release circumstance is met & the Bear Spirit is Released. Please let me know what you think of this class. It is a little out of my comfort zone so I am not sure if the card are balanced well. Are the concepts balanced? Please leave your thoughts, comments, & questions below. I appreciate your time & advice. Thank you! A few choice pics as well: Modified by RedRook on 2014-01-17 18:43:47
Very wonderful and unique class. Good to play for slow games.
Some questions: 1. Why Panther Spirit is cost 0? 2. Will F5/F7 will increase attack of Totem?
Little Review: 0. Its logical, you will have 50% chance of having that card. and you will give a turn to release a Spirit. 2. I guess its Balanced. 3. If it dies, it will be underpowered. It requires perfect setup to use the card, so I guess it will be OK. 4. When summoned turn effect is nice. It can be released on very next turn on summon. You will gain 3 elemental mana for 4 special cost. It will increase mana of card we will use from elemetal house cos it will empty mana pool. Nice card. 5. The only thing that confuse me is why spirit is cost 0? For Control 4? Can be 9/32 with help of F5 on very fourth-fifth turn. nerf Attack or HP? Dunno about balance. Wait for other reviews. 6. Very Impressive card, I like it very much. 7. Greater Minotaur, LoL. Balance is little hard as it will also increase spread attacker's attack. Overpowered combo with E3. Opponent can only survive if he have E9. For using E9 he pretty much empty his healing mana pool. 8. Nice combo with special 0. Totem is balanced I guess. But Since you are getting +2 mana in every mana pool, the attack and HP should be little down. Its situational however, so pretty hard to say anything about balance, Wait for other reviews.
Nice class, I liked it very much. Keep it up!!!
RedRook | 2014-01-17 19:05:44 |
Very wonderful and unique class.Good to play for slow games.
Some questions: 1. Why Panther Spirit is cost 0? 2. Will F5/F7 will increase attack of Totem? Thank you very much DKill! I'm glad you like some of my ideas. Yes, games with this class might be a little slow since it takes a few turns to get everything just right. 1. I'm glad you caught that - it was just a typing error. I was focused on the 0 attack of all of the Totems & it must have stuck. Panther Spirit is cost 5. I've made the change. Thanks. 2. No. The Totems having an attack of 0 will be just like walls or towers & such - they will not receive a boost... The only exception to this rule would be Panther Totem since its attack grows. Do you think that is a bit odd? Should Panther Totem also not receive a boost from F5 & F7? Little Review: 0. Its logical, you will have 50% chance of having that card. and you will give a turn to release a Spirit. 2. I guess its Balanced. 3. If it dies, it will be underpowered. It requires perfect setup to use the card, so I guess it will be OK. 4. When summoned turn effect is nice. It can be released on very next turn on summon. You will gain 3 elemental mana for 4 special cost. It will increase mana of card we will use from elemetal house cos it will empty mana pool. Nice card. 5. The only thing that confuse me is why spirit is cost 0? For Control 4? Can be 9/32 with help of F5 on very fourth-fifth turn. nerf Attack or HP? Dunno about balance. Wait for other reviews. 6. Very Impressive card, I like it very much. 7. Greater Minotaur, LoL. Balance is little hard as it will also increase spread attacker's attack. Overpowered combo with E3. Opponent can only survive if he have E9. For using E9 he pretty much empty his healing mana pool. 8. Nice combo with special 0. Totem is balanced I guess. But Since you are getting +2 mana in every mana pool, the attack and HP should be little down. Its situational however, so pretty hard to say anything about balance, Wait for other reviews.
Nice class, I liked it very much. Keep it up!!!
0. I was thinking the same thing. This spell is kind of like a fail-safe - if your planed Release set-up does not go a planned, you may cast this spell at the cost of your turn to Release your Totem Spirit. 2. It is not very exciting I'll give you that. 3. The healing might be a little low - 2 life per turn would probably be ok. My fear was making it into a 20 life Elven Healer. It is meant to be Released, not used as a healing card. In my thinking, when you use this card, you will probably either already have 9 earth power, or are very close. 4. Thanks, glad you like it! It is one of my favourite cards of the set. The idea is to reward the player for spending all the mana of one pool at once - even though that is a common practice anyway. My only fear is that it might be a little over powered with Elementals since it would give them a boost right from the start. 5. That was just a typo. It might need a slight nerf in stats when considering the use of Orc Chieftain & Minotaur. 6. Thanks! 7. Just remember that Bear Totem only increases attacks in the turn it is summoned, it is not a passive boost like Minotaur. But it still might be a little much with Earth 3. Perhaps only a +1 attack boost will be fine. 8. You are right, the stats might be a little high for the tradeoff. I was using Ancient Dragon as a baseline. The combo with 0 is pretty nifty I thought, since Eagle Totem will probably be the longest wait to Release. I thought the special mana boost from the Totem was a unique way give it a little Tornado immunity - it makes the opponent kind of want you Release the Spirit rather than destroy it & leave you with the 4 mana. Thank you very much for your little review! I really appreciate it.
Modified by RedRook on 2014-01-17 19:05:58
7. I misunderstood Bear Totem. If it just increase +2 attack for 1 turn, then it can be underpowered. You get only 1 turn attack boost for special 7 card?!? E3 will just be 1 turn Hydra, Nothing to fear for opponent. Sorc 5 is much better. However After considering Bear spirit it may look little bit balanced. 7. Just remember that Bear Totem only increases attacks in the turn it is summoned, it is not a passive boost like Minotaur. But it still might be a little much with Earth 3. Perhaps only a +1 attack boost will be fine.,
RedRook | 2014-01-21 02:06:41 |
7. I misunderstood Bear Totem. If it just increase +2 attack for 1 turn, then it can be underpowered. You get only 1 turn attack boost for special 7 card?!? E3 will just be 1 turn Hydra, Nothing to fear for opponent. Sorc 5 is much better. However After considering Bear spirit it may look little bit balanced. With the right set-up the +2 attack bonus can be great - just like you get from Earth 3s with Ritual of Glory. But it takes time and perfect planing since Bear Totem is cost 7 rather than 5 like RoG. I'm not sure if it is underpowered or not. I was thinking it was a little strong at +2 earlier, but now I am kind of thinking the card on the whole is a little underpowered. Perhaps Bear Spirit needs a few more hit points. What do you think? srbhkshk | 2014-01-21 07:11:36 |
Rather hard to review the balance of this class, but the key point is that the totems should be considered as liabilities and thus whatever comes out should be stronger than normal, It seems as if you didn't take that into consideration.
0. I suspect I would be really sad If I got 2 instead of this one, the combo with 8 can be ridiculous. 2. Really weak, what stops me from not putting a creature/putting walls in front of this? + If you summon it in front of something it's really slow to kill that card. 3. Balanced IF you lower the earth requirement and/or improve stats. 4. Weak, would look better at 5-30. 5. Rather weak. 6. Could make the effect 8-10 without trouble. 7. See 6. 8. It would be weak without 0, with 0 it's very strong.
As a concept the class is very weak against fragile but high value creations, since totems provide a good safety slot, Astral Guard behind the Deer totem could be a Good game, I am not sure how to balance that.
Based on :-
Spirit Shaman Class:
Spiritual Harmony Cost: 0 Spell; Release Target Spirit Creature from its Totem immediately.
Serpent Totem Cost: 2 Attack: 0 Life: 15; When Serpent Totem receives damage it deals 2 damage to the creature in the opposite slot. Release: When Serpent Totem's life falls below 7 it Releases Serpent Spirit*. *Serpent Spirit Cost: 2 Attack: 5 Life: 14; When Spirit Serpent is Released it deals 5 damage to the creature in the opposite slot.
Deer Totem Cost: 3 Attack: 0 Life: 20; Each turn Deer Totem heals 1 life to its owner. Release: When Deer Totem's owner's Earth power reaches 9 or more it Releases Deer Spirit*. *Deer Spirit Cost: 3 Attack: 4 Life: 22; When Released Deer Spirit heals all other owner's creatures 6 life.
Owl Totem Cost: 4 Attack: 0 Life: 14; When summoned Owl Totem increases by 1 its owner's lowest Fire, Water, Air, or Earth power. Release: When one of Owl Totem's owner's Fire, Water, Air, or Earth powers reaches 1 or less it Releases Owl Spirit*. *Owl Spirit Cost: 4 Attack: 4 Life: 27; When Released Owl Spirit increases by 2 it owner's lowest Fire, Water, Air, or Earth power.
Panther Totem Cost: 5 Attack: 0 Life 30; Panther Totem's attack increases by 1 each turn. Release: When Panther Totem's attack reaches 4 or higher it Releases Panther Spirit*. *Panther Spirit Cost: 5 Attack: 7 Life: 32; No Abilities.
Spiritual Discord Cost: 6 Spell; Deals 6 damage to the opponent & all opponent creatures & heals 6 life to caster & all caster's creatures.
Bear Totem Cost: 7 Attack: 0 Life: 30; Bear Totem increases the attack of all other owner's creatures by 2 in the turn it is summoned. Release: When there are at lease 8 creatures on the board (including Bear Totem) it releases Bear Spirit*. *Bear Spirit Cost: 7 Attack: 8 Life: 30; When Released Bear Spirit deals 4 damage to all the opponent's creatures.
Eagle Totem Cost: 8 Attack: 0 Life: 40; When summoned Eagle Totem increases its owner Spirit power by 4. Release: When Eagle Totem's owner's Spirit power reaches 8 or more it Releases Eagle Spirit*. *Eagle Spirit Cost: 8 Attack: 9 Life: 31; When Released Eagle Spirit reduces the owner's Spirit power by 4 & increases all the owner's other powers by 2.
---
RedRook | 2014-01-22 17:35:46 |
As a concept the class is very weak against fragile but high value creations, since totems provide a good safety slot, Astral Guard behind the Deer totem could be a Good game, I am not sure how to balance that. That is always an issue when proposing 0 attack creatures in a class - the effects need to be strong enough so that it does not benefit the opponent more than it benefits you - i.e. void slots. What I've tried to do with these cards is make it so that the Totems will not stay on the board for very long, either because they change quickly or you as the player are trying to release them to gain their bonus. This will help with avoiding void slots. Rather hard to review the balance of this class, but the key point is that the totems should be considered as liabilities and thus whatever comes out should be stronger than normal, It seems as if you didn't take that into consideration. I have considered that, & it is good that you brought this up. The way I see this class playing out is the player summons a Totem with the Release requirement already in play or perhaps a turn away, so the Totem form will not see very much board time. This is why I refrained from making the Spirit creatures too strong - since they would only come out 1 turn or so late (with the exception of a few cards.) You are right, the Totems are somewhat of a liability since if they die before Release you are behind in prescience & mana. I just see the Spirit creatures coming out too soon to justify large stat changes or ability adjustments. However, after reading your post, the class on the whole could probably use a little buffing. 0. I suspect I would be really sad If I got 2 instead of this one, the combo with 8 can be ridiculous.2. Really weak, what stops me from not putting a creature/putting walls in front of this? + If you summon it in front of something it's really slow to kill that card. 3. Balanced IF you lower the earth requirement and/or improve stats. 4. Weak, would look better at 5-30. 5. Rather weak. 6. Could make the effect 8-10 without trouble. 7. See 6. 8. It would be weak without 0, with 0 it's very strong. 0. I was afraid of that. I will probably change 2 around so that it has a similar Releasing quality. 2. A weak card, I agree. I will issue a card replacement in the next class update. 3. Alright, thanks. I will work on it. 4. Sounds reasonable. 5. What would you suggest to remedy this card's weakness? A simple stat boost? 6. I'm not so sure about that. 8 might be ok, but 10 is far too high in my opinion - it heals both the caster & their creatures as well as damaging the opponent & their creatures. I could see perhaps raising one part of the spell but not all of it. What is your balancing view on this card? What is your reasoning behind a buff? 7. The Bear probably does need a boost. 8. Perhaps when I rework 2 in a different way, this card will not be so hot-&-cold depending on the 0 draw. Thank you for review SRB! I really appreciate your insight. srbhkshk | 2014-01-22 20:37:16 |
5. Could be, though an ability won't hurt, when you balance this keep in mind Beast 5, It should be slightly stronger.
6. Spirit 8 basically, as a creature spirit 8 is better than beast 4, probably similar to beast 5, So 5ish mana is for the creature and 3ish for effect, your spell costs 6, so in essence for 6 damage and 6 heal you are paying 3 special mana, 6 damage+ heal isn't really too different from Air-3 which is just 3 normal mana + your effect on creatures is 6 compared to spirit-8's 8, I am guessing 10 would make this spell something like haste, sightly OP, 8-9 is probably a good balance point. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The totems are a liability not only because they can get destroyed before the spirit comes out, but also because as you mentioned at the start they serve as void slots, I see your point about playing these creatures close to their release, unfortunately any good player will immediately end up taking advantage of this restriction. As an example say if you play the owl totem, I will immediately rush you, that will force you to heal instead of spending full mana of a class as you wanted, once the turn is over you can't spend the full mana (if it reaches 14/ or is different from the creature you wanted to play), and this totem with its 14 life would probably be dead by the next turn/ you are forced to make sub-optimal play.
That is just a made up example(and is probably not strictly accurate) to show why I want the creatures to be slightly stronger than normal, Sending them on the field close to emergence is good in theory, but could be real hard in a match situation.
Mod note: The line of hyphens was stretching out the page, so I shortened it.
Modified by Wavelength on 2014-03-24 09:02:20 RedRook | 2014-01-26 16:27:19 |
5. Could be, though an ability won't hurt, when you balance this keep in mind Beast 5, It should be slightly stronger.
6. Spirit 8 basically, as a creature spirit 8 is better than beast 4, probably similar to beast 5, So 5ish mana is for the creature and 3ish for effect, your spell costs 6, so in essence for 6 damage and 6 heal you are paying 3 special mana, 6 damage+ heal isn't really too different from Air-3 which is just 3 normal mana + your effect on creatures is 6 compared to spirit-8's 8, I am guessing 10 would make this spell something like haste, sightly OP, 8-9 is probably a good balance point. 5. I will think on this card. I will perhaps give it a slight buff & add a small ability. 6. Thank you for detailing your opinion, it is very helpful to get another view on things. 8 damage & healing all around might be ok given that it is a spell. Angel of War is good comparison - personally I was using Dark Ritual as a base as well as considering both Divine Meddling & Divine Intervention (not to mention taking into account Hellfire as an example of the damage output of a cost 6 spell). I suppose it is tricky to balance it best as it has both healing & damaging components, as well as affecting both players & creatures. I will spend some more thought on this spell. Thanks again for your insight. The totems are a liability not only because they can get destroyed before the spirit comes out, but also because as you mentioned at the start they serve as void slots, I see your point about playing these creatures close to their release, unfortunately any good player will immediately end up taking advantage of this restriction.As an example say if you play the owl totem, I will immediately rush you, that will force you to heal instead of spending full mana of a class as you wanted, once the turn is over you can't spend the full mana (if it reaches 14/ or is different from the creature you wanted to play), and this totem with its 14 life would probably be dead by the next turn/ you are forced to make sub-optimal play.
That is just a made up example(and is probably not strictly accurate) to show why I want the creatures to be slightly stronger than normal, Sending them on the field close to emergence is good in theory, but could be real hard in a match situation. You make some very good points! - like all classes there is a counter to class playstyle. I certainly agree that player will learn to deal with this class by trying to sabotage the Spirit Shaman's plans by controlling their plays - just as with your Owl example. If the Spirit Shaman wants to Release a certain creature, try to make it so that the Release will be a bad investment. This is a good argument for an overall stats boost. Thanks. / I hope to have a second draft of the Spirit Shaman up soon. Until then, please add any more comments you might have, I really appreciate it. RedRook | 2014-02-09 15:12:27 |
I have been thinking on this class for a while now & now have a second draft. Thank you to all for your help & advice!
Second Draft of Spirit Shaman:
Spiritual Harmony Cost: 0 Spell; Release Target Spirit Creature from its Totem immediately.
Fox Totem Cost: 2 Attack: 0 Life: 11; When Fox Totem is summoned it deals damage to the creature in the opposite slot equal to that creature's attack power. Release: At the beginning of its owner's turn, if Fox Totem's life is 6 or less it Releases Fox Spirit*. *Fox Spirit Cost: 2 Attack: 4 Life: 16; When Fox Spirit is Released all other owner Totems in play are also released, even if their Release requirement is not met.
Deer Totem Cost: 3 Attack: 0 Life: 20; Each turn Deer Totem heals 1 life to its owner. Release: When Deer Totem's owner's Earth power reaches 7 or more it Releases Deer Spirit*. *Deer Spirit Cost: 3 Attack: 4 Life: 28; When Released Deer Spirit heals all other owner's creatures 6 life.
Owl Totem Cost: 4 Attack: 0 Life: 15; When summoned Owl Totem increases by 1 its owner's lowest Fire, Water, Air, or Earth power. Release: When one of Owl Totem's owner's Fire, Water, Air, or Earth powers reaches 1 or less it Releases Owl Spirit*. *Owl Spirit Cost: 4 Attack: 5 Life: 30; When Released Owl Spirit increases by 2 it owner's lowest Fire, Water, Air, or Earth power.
Panther Totem Cost: 5 Attack: 0 Life 30; Panther Totem's attack increases by 1 each turn. Release: When Panther Totem's attack reaches 4 or higher it Releases Panther Spirit*. *Panther Spirit Cost: 5 Attack: 6 Life: 36; Each time Panther Spirit kills an opponent creature its attack increases by 1 permanently.
Spiritual Discord Cost: 6 Spell; Deals 8 damage to the opponent & all opponent creatures & heals 8 life to caster & all caster's creatures.
Bear Totem Cost: 7 Attack: 0 Life: 30; Bear Totem increases the attack of all other owner's creatures by 2 in the turn it is summoned. Release: When there are at lease 8 creatures on the board (including Bear Totem) it releases Bear Spirit*. *Bear Spirit Cost: 7 Attack: 8 Life: 37; When Released Bear Spirit deals 8 damage to all the opponent's creatures.
Eagle Totem Cost: 8 Attack: 0 Life: 40; When summoned Eagle Totem increases its owner Spirit power by 4. Release: When Eagle Totem's owner's Spirit power reaches 8 or more it Releases Eagle Spirit*. *Eagle Spirit Cost: 8 Attack: 9 Life: 31; When Released Eagle Spirit reduces the owner's Spirit power by 4 & increases all the owner's other powers by 2.
/
I have made a few stat & ability changes, as well as introducing a new Cost 2 card. Please let me know how the class looks now. I would love to hear your thoughts on this new version. I appreciate your time & advice. Thank you.
Wavelength | 2014-03-24 10:01:10 |
Hey Red! My browser is FINALLY letting me post again without getting
"HTML Input" errors, so I wanted to sound in on your class as promised!
I'll base the review off of your "second draft" since I think it is a
better jumping-off point than the original draft.
I like the
class a lot as a whole; most of the pairs of effects are very smart and I
like how the Release conditions are fairly easy to meet no matter what
your draw holds, which makes the whole mechanic more about timing than about lots of powerful-but-situational effects. As such, I really don't have a ton of suggestions for improvement, as I think the class is good already, and it's one I'd love to see in the game. If I were a dev and I saw this, it would definitely be among my candidates to try to implement. It's very creative and unique and actually wouldn't require any mechanics that aren't already in the game.
I don't think the Void Slots are as big of a deal as srbh believes they are - the key is to play the Totems across from other creatures. You, as the Spirit Shaman, will want to play your own creatures in empty slots so as to leave room opposite enemy creatures for your Totems. The fact that void slots CAN occur will distort your play, and will leave you wary of using a sweep that will let you give your opponent an opportunity to place, say, an Elf Hermit across from a Totem. But I don't think this is gamebreaking, especially with the relatively easy outs in Spirit 0 and 2.
One detail about release - your notes on the timing seem to contradict each other. Demon creatures such as Lemure will replace each other immediately - so if a Hydra's attack kills a Lemure, it will not wait until any turns are over but will instead release Scrambled Lemure immediately. On the other hand, your note about "if the conditions are met immediately" implies that the Totems can only release their Spirits at the beginning or end of a turn. So, which is it?
0: I think the cost is probably fair - you give up a turn in order to achieve the perfect timing on a Totem or to get the effect even though you can't fulfill the condition. However, I think the very concept of the card is questionable - not necessarily bad, but I wonder whether the class would be better or worse without it. If you can't fulfill the relatively easy conditions, do you really deserve to be able to release a creature? Does this make counterplay by the opponent a less viable and less interesting option? And is there a Totem 2 card that, without becoming totally overpowered, could possibly be useful enough to justify losing out on this incredibly flexible 0? I'm not totally sure.
2: I think the rework to Fox Totem is perfect, because it gives you an easy way to release the other Totems (which would require some setup to make work) and the opponent would generally need to use a sweep to kill the Totem without granting the release. So 11 life is the perfect level for this card. Having said that, you could probably change the life requirement for release to "5 or less" - this would allow for a slight bit of counterplay, such as Wall of Fire + Troll. I'm assuming here that its effect triggers immediately if its life ever sits at 5/6 or less without reaching zero in a single instant, and that it doesn't have to wait for the end of the turn to Release. My instinct is that Fox Spirit is slightly underpowered, and I might make it 4/18 or 5/14, but I could be wrong.
3: I assume that your Earth power doesn't need to "reach" 7 (from below 7) but just needs to "be at 7 or higher". It's an interesting interaction with Earth power and especially with Earth 2 - you can use Earth 2 on a creature to keep the Earth power low, then let it rise back to 7 to trigger an additional heal for that creature when Deer Spirit is released. With a potential of a whopping 48 life, in addition to the minor owner healing, this card is very much designed for stalling. The weak attack and effects are probably enough to justify this high life total.
4: Oh, that's tricky. It would actually be hard to combo with an Elemental unless you also had the mana gainer from that same element available (e.g. Fire Elemental and Priest of Fire). This is one of those brilliantly-designed cards that seems like it should have broken combos, but doesn't. Very nice.
5: It's weird to have this singular Totem that can attack. What was the reasoning behind that - were you too worried about the class having a lack of initial attack power? The card is okay as it is, but it's not super-interesting; the condition on Panther Spirit is too minor to justify warping your gameplay around (like you would with Chrono Hunter). Here's my suggested rework, and feel free to take or leave any parts of it: * Panther Totem 0/31 - Panther Spirit's attack power increases by 1 each turn, but it may not attack. * Release: When the combined attack of Panther Totem and its neighbors is 12 or more, it becomes Panther Spirit. * Panther Spirit ?/35 - Panther Spirit's attack power is equal to 2 plus the attack power of Panther Totem when it is released. If Panther Spirit kills a creature, it attacks again.
6: As a direct conversion, this would cost about 10.5 basic mana and a turn for 8/8 damage and 8/8 healing, as opposed to Chain Lightning, which costs 8 basic mana and a turn for 9/9 damage. Looking at it that way, this card seems a little overpowered. However, my bigger complaint would be that you missed a great opportunity, in a class as thematic as this, to make the Totems part of the effect! One idea that immediately comes to mind would be to (in addition to a smaller amount of player/creature damage/healing) grant the Release effects of all of your other Totems that are in play - which would make it combo well with Totem 3, 4, 7, and 8.
7: Has the nice effect (especially with spread attackers) as it comes into play, and then an appropriately powerful effect when it's released. Part of me wants to say it's underpowered because I'm comparing it to Master Lich, and because there are so many opportunities to try to counterplay it. I don't think it would be a bad idea to bump its attack to 9, or even give the totem a few extra life.
8: The design is pretty brilliant: you get Totem power refunded, then you have to give it all back when Eagle Spirit is released, so you can make the creature appropriately powerful for a Special 8 while giving it the resistance to Tornado (or a quick Totem kill) that it needs. That's very clever. I think the creature and its effect are appropriately balanced, too (comparing Divine Intervention or Ancient Dragon); I might even give it a 10th attack point only because it takes so long to get the creature out there. You do have to figure out a way to prevent abuse of the auto-release cards (0 and 2), though: a Spirit Shaman could use Totem 8 - Totem 3 - Totem 2 (assuming something is there to hit the Totem 2 and trigger the release), or Totem 8 - Totem 5 - Totem 0, in that order, and they'll have a few really great creatures as well as 2 power in each other school, for the mere cost of 9-10 Totem mana and 3 turns. That's verging on broken.
Great job with this class.
RedRook | 2014-03-25 00:12:12 |
Hey Red! My browser is FINALLY letting me post again without getting "HTML Input" errors, so I wanted to sound in on your class as promised! I'll base the review off of your "second draft" since I think it is a better jumping-off point than the original draft.
I like the class a lot as a whole; most of the pairs of effects are very smart and I like how the Release conditions are fairly easy to meet no matter what your draw holds, which makes the whole mechanic more about timing than about lots of powerful-but-situational effects. As such, I really don't have a ton of suggestions for improvement, as I think the class is good already, and it's one I'd love to see in the game. If I were a dev and I saw this, it would definitely be among my candidates to try to implement. It's very creative and unique and actually wouldn't require any mechanics that aren't already in the game.
Great news! Glad you finally solved your browser issues, I hope to see you around the Forum a little more often now. I really appreciate your taking the time to review this class. Thank you! I'm glad you like the class concept, it is one of my top class ideas I think. I love the way you have summed up the Release - it's not about powerful-but-situational effects & is designed to work with most any draws. It's time to alert Cooler & the gang - this class should be a keeper! I don't think the Void Slots are as big of a deal as srbh believes they are - the key is to play the Totems across from other creatures. You, as the Spirit Shaman, will want to play your own creatures in empty slots so as to leave room opposite enemy creatures for your Totems. The fact that void slots CAN occur will distort your play, and will leave you wary of using a sweep that will let you give your opponent an opportunity to place, say, an Elf Hermit across from a Totem. But I don't think this is gamebreaking, especially with the relatively easy outs in Spirit 0 and 2.
You have captured the essence of the Totem. Making 0 attack creatures is always risky business, that is why the Release mechanic is designed to come into play quickly so that the risk of void slots is not too great. Plus there are the "easy outs" you've mentioned, just in case something unexpected does happen. One detail about release - your notes on the timing seem to contradict each other. Demon creatures such as Lemure will replace each other immediately - so if a Hydra's attack kills a Lemure, it will not wait until any turns are over but will instead release Scrambled Lemure immediately. On the other hand, your note about "if the conditions are met immediately" implies that the Totems can only release their Spirits at the beginning or end of a turn. So, which is it?
I used Demons to illustrate what happens upon release, comparing it to their characteristic trait of replacing. A few of these Totems will release just like Demons, such as Bear Totem, but for the most part the Releases will happen at the start of your turn. This is to prevent immediate Releases upon Totem summoning. Taking a look at some individual cards: Deer Totem & Eagle Totem will always Release at the start of the turn; if the condition is already met when it is summoned (Earth mana prerequisite or Special mana) the Release will happen on the turn after the Totem is summoned. Compare this to Chrono Engine - on the turn Chrono Engine is summoned the player does not get the extra phase awarded by the creature, it's effect does not come into play until the next turn. Most of the Totems are set-up to Release at the start of the Shaman's turn. But cards like Bear Totem & Panther Totem might be Released during play by way of creature summoning or the play of cads like Minotaur Commander or Orc Chieftain for Panther. Does this help at all? 0: I think the cost is probably fair - you give up a turn in order to achieve the perfect timing on a Totem or to get the effect even though you can't fulfill the condition. However, I think the very concept of the card is questionable - not necessarily bad, but I wonder whether the class would be better or worse without it. If you can't fulfill the relatively easy conditions, do you really deserve to be able to release a creature? Does this make counterplay by the opponent a less viable and less interesting option? And is there a Totem 2 card that, without becoming totally overpowered, could possibly be useful enough to justify losing out on this incredibly flexible 0? I'm not totally sure.
2: I think the rework to Fox Totem is perfect, because it gives you an easy way to release the other Totems (which would require some setup to make work) and the opponent would generally need to use a sweep to kill the Totem without granting the release. So 11 life is the perfect level for this card. Having said that, you could probably change the life requirement for release to "5 or less" - this would allow for a slight bit of counterplay, such as Wall of Fire + Troll. I'm assuming here that its effect triggers immediately if its life ever sits at 5/6 or less without reaching zero in a single instant, and that it doesn't have to wait for the end of the turn to Release. My instinct is that Fox Spirit is slightly underpowered, and I might make it 4/18 or 5/14, but I could be wrong.
3: I assume that your Earth power doesn't need to "reach" 7 (from below 7) but just needs to "be at 7 or higher". It's an interesting interaction with Earth power and especially with Earth 2 - you can use Earth 2 on a creature to keep the Earth power low, then let it rise back to 7 to trigger an additional heal for that creature when Deer Spirit is released. With a potential of a whopping 48 life, in addition to the minor owner healing, this card is very much designed for stalling. The weak attack and effects are probably enough to justify this high life total.
4: Oh, that's tricky. It would actually be hard to combo with an Elemental unless you also had the mana gainer from that same element available (e.g. Fire Elemental and Priest of Fire). This is one of those brilliantly-designed cards that seems like it should have broken combos, but doesn't. Very nice.
5: It's weird to have this singular Totem that can attack. What was the reasoning behind that - were you too worried about the class having a lack of initial attack power? The card is okay as it is, but it's not super-interesting; the condition on Panther Spirit is too minor to justify warping your gameplay around (like you would with Chrono Hunter). Here's my suggested rework, and feel free to take or leave any parts of it: * Panther Totem 0/31 - Panther Spirit's attack power increases by 1 each turn, but it may not attack. * Release: When the combined attack of Panther Totem and its neighbors is 12 or more, it becomes Panther Spirit. * Panther Spirit ?/35 - Panther Spirit's attack power is equal to 2 plus the attack power of Panther Totem when it is released. If Panther Spirit kills a creature, it attacks again.
6: As a direct conversion, this would cost about 10.5 basic mana and a turn for 8/8 damage and 8/8 healing, as opposed to Chain Lightning, which costs 8 basic mana and a turn for 9/9 damage. Looking at it that way, this card seems a little overpowered. However, my bigger complaint would be that you missed a great opportunity, in a class as thematic as this, to make the Totems part of the effect! One idea that immediately comes to mind would be to (in addition to a smaller amount of player/creature damage/healing) grant the Release effects of all of your other Totems that are in play - which would make it combo well with Totem 3, 4, 7, and 8.
7: Has the nice effect (especially with spread attackers) as it comes into play, and then an appropriately powerful effect when it's released. Part of me wants to say it's underpowered because I'm comparing it to Master Lich, and because there are so many opportunities to try to counterplay it. I don't think it would be a bad idea to bump its attack to 9, or even give the totem a few extra life.
8: The design is pretty brilliant: you get Totem power refunded, then you have to give it all back when Eagle Spirit is released, so you can make the creature appropriately powerful for a Special 8 while giving it the resistance to Tornado (or a quick Totem kill) that it needs. That's very clever. I think the creature and its effect are appropriately balanced, too (comparing Divine Intervention or Ancient Dragon); I might even give it a 10th attack point only because it takes so long to get the creature out there. You do have to figure out a way to prevent abuse of the auto-release cards (0 and 2), though: a Spirit Shaman could use Totem 8 - Totem 3 - Totem 2 (assuming something is there to hit the Totem 2 and trigger the release), or Totem 8 - Totem 5 - Totem 0, in that order, and they'll have a few really great creatures as well as 2 power in each other school, for the mere cost of 9-10 Totem mana and 3 turns. That's verging on broken.
Great job with this class. 0. I had the same thoughts when I first made the card. I wanted to have a way to Release a Totem if thing took a turn for the worst. But I like how you said, the Releases are pretty easy to meet so if you can't meet them do you really deserve to Release the Spirit. Since we have the cost 2 emergency Releaser (& the possable Cost 6 Spell Release idea of yours) do we really need a this card? When I designed the Second Draft I implemented both cost 0 & 2 cards to be a round-about way to Release so that the player is guaranteed to have an out. But with what you're saying about the Release requirements being easy to meet, I'm beginning to rethink this guarantee. 2. The Release on this particular card is designed to happen at the start of the Shaman's turn after the requirement is met, not during play. I did not have any particular reasoning behind this, it just seemed like a good idea. I can easily make the change if you think it would be a better work. It might be a tad underpowered as it sits, but the benefit of an early Release is pretty great. I will consider a stat boost, thanks. 3. Right, the Spirit Shaman's Earth power just needs to be 7 or higher, not reach it from below 7. I will change the card to better read this way. 4. Huzah! A brilliant card! Thank you for the complements. This is the best received card of the whole class it seems - it's a favourite. Though I'm a little confused at what you mean by working best with only Elementals with their respective mana gainers. 5. I don't like the attacking Totem either, it just doesn't fit the rest of the class, I just didn't have a good way to work it with the Release idea - I hadn't even considered just adding that it doesn't attack to the card. I wanted to use the increasing attack as a different way to work a Release around. I really like your suggestions & I will implement them either in full or their parts - especially the first & last ones. Thank you! 6. That is a marvelous idea! I think we had a discussion similar to this in my Lightstave class about the Auras. I will be making a change to this spell to include a Spirit Release. Great idea! 7. Right. I get what you're saying. I'll give the fuzzy guy a little buff. 8. Thank you! I was very proud of myself when I came up with the design for this card. I can see abuse of the auto release cards with the Eagle, though could be an issue. Perhaps if we replace the 0 card with something else that does not auto-Release, this will make the combo scheme less of a hazard? Thank you very much for your detailed critique! I really appreciate you taking the time & energy to complete the review. Thanks. RedRook | 2014-04-01 23:37:39 |
After much thought given to the next update, this class is ready for a revamp. Please look over this new version & let me know your thoughts, thank you. & Thank you to those who have helped guide this class thus far.
Third Draft of Spirit Shaman:
Tortoise Totem Cost: 1 Attack: 0 Life: 8; When summoned Tortoise Totem Releases any Totem in its neighbouring slots immediately. Release: When Tortoise Totem's owner summons a Spirit creature while Tortoise Totem is in play Tortoise Totem Releases Tortoise Spirit* *Tortoise Spirit Cost: 1 Attack: 4 Life: 8. When Tortoise Spirit is released it increases its owner's Spirit power by 1.
Fox Totem Cost: 2 Attack: 0 Life: 11; When Fox Totem is summoned it deals damage to the creature in the opposite slot equal to that creature's attack power. Release: At the beginning of its owner's turn, if Fox Totem's life is 5 or less it Releases Fox Spirit*. *Fox Spirit Cost: 2 Attack: 4 Life: 17; When Fox Spirit is Released all other owner Totems in play are also released, even if their Release requirement is not met.
Deer Totem Cost: 3 Attack: 0 Life: 20; Each turn Deer Totem heals 1 life to its owner. Release: If Deer Totem's owner's Earth power is 7 or more at the beginning of the turn it Releases Deer Spirit*. *Deer Spirit Cost: 3 Attack: 4 Life: 28; When Released Deer Spirit heals all other owner's creatures 6 life.
Owl Totem Cost: 4 Attack: 0 Life: 15; When summoned Owl Totem increases by 1 its owner's lowest Fire, Water, Air, or Earth power. Release: When one of Owl Totem's owner's Fire, Water, Air, or Earth powers reaches 1 or less it Releases Owl Spirit*. *Owl Spirit Cost: 4 Attack: 5 Life: 30; When Released Owl Spirit increases by 2 it owner's lowest Fire, Water, Air, or Earth power.
Panther Totem Cost: 5 Attack: 0 Life 32; Panther Totem's attack increases by 1 each turn, but it may not attack. Release: When the combined attack power of Panther Totem & its neighbours is 12 or higher it Releases Panther Spirit*. *Panther Spirit Cost: 5 Attack: X Life: 34; Panther Spirit's attack is equal to 2 + the attack of Panther Totem when it is Released; when Panther Spirit kills an opponent creature it attacks again immediately.
Spiritual Awakening Cost: 6 Spell; Heals the caster & all caster's creatures an amount of life equal to the owner's Spirit power & Releases all caster's Totems currently in play. (Healing is calculated before the cost of the spell is subtracted.)
Bear Totem Cost: 7 Attack: 0 Life: 34; Bear Totem increases the attack of all other owner's creatures by 2 in the turn it is summoned. Release: When there are at lease 8 creatures on the board (including Bear Totem) it releases Bear Spirit*. *Bear Spirit Cost: 7 Attack: 9 Life: 37; When Released Bear Spirit deals 8 damage to all the opponent's creatures.
Eagle Totem Cost: 8 Attack: 0 Life: 40; When summoned Eagle Totem increases its owner Spirit power by 4. Release: When Eagle Totem's owner's Spirit power reaches 8 or more it Releases Eagle Spirit*. *Eagle Spirit Cost: 8 Attack: 10 Life: 32; When Released Eagle Spirit reduces the owner's Spirit power by 4 & increases all the owner's other powers by 2.
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There you have it - draft three. Take a look & post your thoughts, please. I appreciate your time & advice. Thank you.
srbhkshk | 2014-04-02 03:06:09 |
Just nitpicking, but it seems as if the class has gone a bit overboard with all the rules and become a little too complex for comfort.
Modified by srbhkshk on 2014-04-02 03:06:22 RedRook | 2014-04-02 15:00:54 |
Just nitpicking, but it seems as if the class has gone a bit overboard with all the rules and become a little too complex for comfort. I enjoy nitpicking. I'll give you that the new Panther has a tad more going on than most of the other cards, but I still like it. Would you mind elaborating a little more on what you see as too complex for your comfort? I value your opinions. I am a fan of elegant simplicity, so if this class has grown too complex I would like to know how to simplify the areas in dispute. Thanks. srbhkshk | 2014-04-03 05:37:05 |
It's the overall class really, I didn't notice it at the beginning, but each card is doing things on summon, things when totem is in play, when to release, what happens on release, a lot of rules really, not sure how to correct that without too much meddling with the class.
Modified by srbhkshk on 2014-04-03 05:37:23 RedRook | 2014-04-05 01:29:09 |
It's the overall class really, I didn't notice it at the beginning, but each card is doing things on summon, things when totem is in play, when to release, what happens on release, a lot of rules really, not sure how to correct that without too much meddling with the class. As a class on the whole as compared to other existing classes I would agree with you, it is quite complex overall - this sort of thing happenes when a new format or scheme is introduced; such as the Beastmaster class is more complex than Mechanics or Demons being more complex than Goblins. Mind you I am referring to the format, not their play or difficulty - Beast offers the Single Creature Placement with Ability & Demons offers the Upon-death Replacement Creatures; this makes them more complex than other vanilla 1-8 simple-scheme classes. Now, I'm not saying this class is better or even as good as Beast or Demon, I'm just saying that just because it is complex does not mean it couldn't fit into the game. There are a lot of different things going on, yes - it is a lot for players to take in for just one class. Not only are there 15 different cards to remember (7 Totems, 7 Spirits, & 1 Spell), but the Totems also have the Release Condition to keep in mind. This is a lot! I have Given Sinist the same critique on one of his classes that featured 16 creatures. It's a lot going on. It is complex. That's why I tried to keep the Releases simple & easy to fulfill. Also, all the Totems, with the exception of Deer Totem & Panther Totem, all have come-into-play effects rather than passives - this simplifies things as well. The effects themselves are quite simple as well, such as creature damage or mana boosting. Also, another simplifying measure of the class is that all Spirit Creatures, save Panther, have come-into-play effects as well. Though I employed these simplification tools I realize that the class is still complex on the whole. & like you said, without messing too much with the class platform all together, there's not a way to fix the rules & complexity. I tries my best to keep the rules to a minimum, but in a class like this is becomes quite difficult. If you have any tips or advice I would be glad to hear it. Thank you! amorphism | 2014-09-13 05:37:07 |
So far, after reading a lot (really) of classes today this is simply the best one - it's well rounded, interesting and innovative and like Wavelength said I think that if the devs look at this class suggestion board they really need to consider the Spirit Shaman as a candidate for an expansion!
In short +1 for me! Great job! :) Sinist | 2014-09-13 06:47:40 |
Now I wonder if someone will make "top class suggestions" list...
billyw | 2014-09-15 02:13:48 |
Now I wonder if someone will make "top class suggestions" list...
Neat idea! Maybe some sort of voting system will bring the good ones to the top and will give the devs something to consider! RedRook | 2014-09-15 14:38:06 |
So far, after reading a lot (really) of classes today this is simply the best one - it's well rounded, interesting and innovative and like Wavelength said I think that if the devs look at this class suggestion board they really need to consider the Spirit Shaman as a candidate for an expansion!
In short +1 for me! Great job! :) Wow! Thank you! This is a very high complement. I appreciate you taking a look at this class. It means a lot to me.
It would be awesome if even one of my ideas made it into the game. That is the dream of all class-creators!
Modified by RedRook on 2014-09-15 14:43:37 GarryHe | 2014-11-28 22:23:38 |
RedRook | 2014-11-30 17:13:54 |
Fucking cooooool
It feels good to have some celebrity endorsement. GarryHe | 2014-11-30 17:53:41 |
... It feels good to have some celebrity endorsement.
There's no possible flaws I can think of right now. Just wanna see a beta version and try it. Thanks for the efforts!
RedRook | 2014-11-30 22:24:00 |
There's no possible flaws I can think of right now. Just wanna see a beta version and try it. Thanks for the efforts!
Thank you greatly! To see an actual playable beta version would be incredible. I'm sure there would be several kinks to work out - always room for improvement. Thanks for reading! Always a pleasure. |