Wavelength | 2014-04-29 22:32:03 |
Hey all! It's been a while since I've posted a class, so I figured I'd try my hand and see if I've still got good touch!Class Name: Herbalist Mana Name: BotanyThe Herbalist uses his (or her) knowledge of the world's plants to both sustain themselves and trap their enemies. Though most of Revnia's plants are innocuous, there are a few which, especially given room to grow, can extinguish the most fearsome beasts in the land. My last few classes have had unique class-wide mechanics, so this time I wanted to go with more standard cards while keeping a strong theme intact. One cool game element that I don't think any cards or classes have really played with is unopposed slots. The Herbalist class rewards you for wisely considering which slots you can afford to leave empty, and many of its creatures either grant bonuses when you are attacked or become more effective when they don't have neighbors.
I hope you like this class, and look forward to hearing your thoughts!!=== Herbal RemedyCost 1 Spell Heals target creature for X + 6 life, where X is the number of times you have taken damage since this spell was last used. [[Notes: "Net effect" can be shown on the card, similar to when spells are used with Dragon.]]Rapid MimosaCost 2 Creature - 4/19 When Rapid Mimosa is attacked, it moves to the nearest empty unopposed slot to its right. [[Notes: Rapid Mimosa can "jump over" other friendly creatures to find the nearest empty unopposed slot. If there are no empty unopposed slots to the right of Rapid Mimosa, it will not move.]]Fae GardenerCost 3 Creature - 4/21 Each time its owner takes damage, Faerie Gardener and its owner are healed 2 life. [[Notes: The drawing algorithm would be set so that this card would only rarely appear in a hand against Forest Sprite - perhaps a 5% simultaneous appearance rate instead of the normal 16%.]] Carnivore BlossomCost 4 Creature - 3/32 Carnivore Blossom is summoned with 20 life (out of a maximum 32). Each turn, Carnivore Blossom steals 6 life, split evenly between its neighbors and the opposing creature. When Carnivore Blossom is at full life, it deals +3 damage to the opponent. [[Notes: This means it will steal either 6, 3, or 2 life from its neighbors and the opposing slot, depending on how many of those slots are filled. If none are filled, it will not steal any life. This is not considered damage so, for example, Carnivore Blossom will be able to use its effect on an Ice Golem. If a target has less life than the amount stolen, CB will still get the full heal. If there are no neighbors nor opposing creature, CB cannot steal any life. The +3 attack is only against the opponent, not against opposing creatures.]]Briar VineyardCost 5 Creature - 5/37 In addition to its normal attack, Briar Vineyard also attacks creatures that oppose neighboring empty slots. [[Notes: Briar Vineyard will attack the opponent if it is unopposed. However, for the bonus attack to neighboring slots, it can only attack creatures, not the opponent. As clarification, "neighboring empty slots" means an empty slot next to Briar Vineyard - enemy creatures opposite those empty slots will be attacked.]]Ploughshares Into SwordsCost 6 Spell Deal 8 + 3X damage to opponent's creatures (where X is your Botany mana after casting this spell), and your unblocked creatures attack twice this turn. Lose all your Botany mana. Garden of Good and EvilCost 7 Creature - 4/42 Attacks the turn it's summoned. While Garden of Good and Evil is in play, you take 2 less damage from attacks (but no less than 1), and your opponent takes 2 more damage from attacks. Forbidden FlowerCost 8 Creature - 5/35 Receives +2 attack power for each empty slot on its owner's side. When Forbidden Flower dies, it deals damage equal to its attack to the opponent and each opponent's creature. [[Notes: If other friendly creatures die at the same time as Forbidden Flower, FF's effect won't do extra on-death damage.]]=== Change Log:
July 12: Herbal Remedy Healing reduced from X+7 to X+6 Fae Gardener's cost increased from 2 to 3; stats increased from 3/17 to 4/21 Rapid Mimosa's cost decreased from 3 to 2; stats decreased from 5/22 to 4/19 Carnivore Blossom's max life decreased from 40 to 32 (starting life unchanged); attack increased from 3 to 4; now deals +3 damage when attacking the opponent while at full life Briar Vineyard's max life decreased from 39 to 37 Garden of Good and Evil's base attack decreased from 5 to 4Modified by Wavelength on 2015-07-12 13:10:23
This is a Good class, Nice attempt after so long time.
1. Its Good idea. Once I use this card, I will obviously use it after opponent casting Armageddon to fully heal my any living creature for just 1 cost.
2. Very Situational. Can be used just like Ice Guard. Ice guard does not heal itself though. This card can be spammed to get good healing against spread attackers. That way can be op a bit.
3. I like this card, can be very useful in rush game.
4. Its still confusing, What will be pattern of its steal effect? How will it steal 6,3,2 life? Please Explain.
5. Finest card of all. With its limited bonus attack to creatures only, Its perfect.
6. Can kill almost all low health creatures if used with 8-9 special mana. Good card.
7. Not sure about this. Wait for other reviews.
8. this one too, typical to justify. Effect is good. we can use it with all unblocked slots for 15 attack, and any Global damage spell can kill it for minor F11 effect.
1. GOOD, 1 cost, 1 target, usually 1 time massive heal...
2. I agree with DK, it kinda OP especially spam it... might lower its attack or hp.
3. Not bad, but sometime can lead to suicide...
4. Its still confusing, What will be pattern of its steal effect? How will it steal 6,3,2 life? Please Explain.
4. Very cool card. If there is only 1 creature blocking CB or beside CB (neighbor), the creature will lose 6 hp and CB will gain 6 hp. If 2 beside it or maybe 1 blocking it and another beside it, both will lose 3 hp. If the 3 slot is fill (opposing and neighbors), the 3 creatures will lose 2.... Correct me if I am wrong. Each turn << Did it mean when owner's and opponent's turn will drain hp from creatures? Start of the each turn or ? hmm...
5. + F5 lucky it won't deals extra damage to opponent.
6. Good card, but if after it kill your opponent's creature this way and making your blocked creature unblock, the creature will be attack twice?
7. If only from 'attacks', i think it fine.
8. hmm kinda scary sometime. maybe can change to +1 for each empty slot on board (max attack will be 16) so opponent can control it damage LOL.. just suggest LOL IDK
RedRook | 2014-05-02 14:53:29 |
Hello, Wave! I would say that you still have the touch for class creation - this is a very nice class. Most of your other classes have some unique dynamic, it is nice to see you create something a little more traditional. That being said, I prefer your other classes to this one. This is not a bad class at all, don't get me wrong, I just think your others are better. I love the aesthetic theme here & the open-slots theme is very interesting, though a few of the ways you have interpreted them is a little odd. But still a great class! Herbal Remedy Cost 1 Spell Heals target creature for X + 7 life, where X is the number of times you have taken damage since this spell was last used.
Fae Gardener Cost 2 Creature - 3/17 Each time its owner takes damage, Faerie Gardener and its owner are healed 2 life.
Rapid Mimosa Cost 3 Creature - 5/22 When Rapid Mimosa is attacked, it moves to the nearest empty unopposed slot to its right.
Carnivore Blossom Cost 4 Creature - 3/40 Carnivore Blossom is summoned with 20 life (out of a maximum 40). Each turn, Carnivore Blossom steals 6 life, split evenly between its neighbors and the opposing creature.
Briar Vineyard Cost 5 Creature - 5/39 In addition to its normal attack, Briar Vineyard also attacks creatures that oppose neighboring empty slots.
Ploughshares Into Swords Cost 6 Spell Deal 8 + 3X damage to opponent's creatures (where X is your Botany mana after casting this spell), and your unblocked creatures attack twice this turn. Lose all your Botany mana.
Garden of Good and Evil Cost 7 Creature - 5/42 Attacks the turn it's summoned. While Garden of Good and Evil is in play, you take 2 less damage from attacks (but no less than 1), and your opponent takes 2 more damage from attacks.
Forbidden Flower Cost 8 Creature - 5/35 Receives +2 attack power for each empty slot on its owner's side. When Forbidden Flower dies, it deals damage equal to its attack to the opponent and each opponent's creature.
1. This is a niffy little spell! I don't think it would be too much trouble to work out technically either. I want to say it is a little powerful though. You may reduce the base healing to X+5 or X+6. 6 would be be better. I can see this spell being cast on an early mana gainer like Merfolk Elder or Elf Hermit. Then, several turns later, it is cast to heal an important creatures for quite a lot of life for 1 cost. True, it will take more time to "warm up" before you might cast it again. I'm not sure. Others say it is just fine, & it probably is. I like it! 2. I am suprised no one has mentioned the amazing synergy this card has with Sea Sprite! A nullified Sea Sprite that heals an other creature! That is really cool. I do like this card, but it might need a slight nerf to life. It is a cool concept. I'm no computer wizard, but it might create some Chaotic Wave style errors since the healing might interrupt the attack line. But who knows! A very cool idea! 3. As per your notes on this one, I am assuming it will not skip over creatures - if their is a creature to the right but the next slot is empty, this card will not "jump" the creature to the right to land in the other slot. This is a cool concept. I like it much better than Portal Jumper! & it seems pretty well balanced, even though it has 5 attack. It could get a little strange against spread attackers though. 4. The only issue I see here with this card is that the opponent will likely completely ignore it, leaving you with a neighbour drainer - it might become a liability then. But the concept is really cool - I remember talking about this kind of creature in one of Sinist's classes, the healing to a max life. It is very cool card & will likely survive a very long time. It would be interesting to see two of them side-by-side. 5. Like the campaign Hellbot, but only against creatures. Pretty cool. I don't think Orc Chieftain will be an issue because that would take up one of the neighbouring slots. I am with DK, this is a really cool card - it is very well thought out. Well done! It leaves you vulnerable but you are still able to attack with force. Great synergy with Lightning Cloud, Hydra, Minotaur, & Ice Guard. 6. I like the idea, but it is just a little too complex for my taste. 7. It reminds me of Justicar with the +2 damage boost. I think it is a good card, it fits the theme perhaps the best out of any of them (as well as 5) taking advantage of blocked & unblocked slots. It might need a slight nerf in life, but other than that it is awesome! 8. This one takes some strategy to play. It does have a certain degree of Tornado protection if played correctly so that it will deal a good amount of damage right from the start is killed. That is cool. I find myself comparing it is Hypnotist oddly enough. I can say that this class does become a whole lot better when the Herbalist draws Ice Guard - that is the only thing I can see that would throw the class into a strange win percentage range. It might be a little difficult for newer players to understand the when-to-block dynamic, but that's ok, there are other classes that are hard for beginners (& pros alike!) I think you have another really neat class here! Thank you for your class suggestion. Sinist | 2014-05-03 10:18:03 |
1. Interesting idea, really interesting... but a bit too complex. And lets compare it with sorcery 1. Theoretically they are on par - strong healing vs more distributed, spammable healing - however in practice you often find target healing much more useful (this is why master is more valuable than paladine). Thats why I feel remedy is overpowered a bit. 2. Gardener negates almost completely "wearing" effect of cloud and especially hydra (a big part of threat from this card) being almost immune to them himself. Are you sure this is a good thing? Even very expensive chastiser only "punishes" for playing them, dont negate. Ban with sea sprite btw. 3. Beefy hero. Good for spam, otherwise nothing special. 4. Amazing n theory, inferior to holy guard in practice imho. 5. I feel that damage output is too high taking into account huge hp. Otherwise fun (but not so original) card. 6. Much better than canonade for slot breaking when used correctly... 7. Lol, what a name. Since it both protects you and cannot be just blocked by some beefy guy... No wa to prevent bonus damage which is actually a major threat. So walking garden needs a sort of nerf. 8. More heavy chastiser. Good for counterattack I guess. Overall good class, needs some tweaks though.
Wavelength | 2015-07-12 10:05:14 |
So it's been a long time, but let's give this class the revision it deserves. Thank you guys so much for the feedback - I did read it and appreciate it at the time you wrote it, but never said so or made changes based on it until now.
General: I don't believe I had thought of the incredible synergy with Ice Guard when I designed this class! This is a really good point (especially since an opponent Ice Guard would also be extremely powerful when you're playing this class). I've thought about this for a couple hours and, aside from literally changing Ice Guard's effect when an Herbalist is in the game (which is a super-weird solution), I can't come up with a good solution. Definitely willing to listen to ideas here. If I were to change Ice Guard's effect, it would be "Ice Guard: 3/20. Ice Guard takes half damage from spells and heals its owner for the spell cost when the opponent uses a spell."
Herbal Remedy: Looks like you guys appreciate the concept, so that's great. To address the concerns that it's slightly OP, I'll make the conservative change from X+7 to X+6 healing.
Fae Gardener: So the feedback seems to be "really good concept, but the healing is OP". I don't want to mess with the healing since it's supposed to be a strong counter to spread attacks and weenie rushes... nor do I want to reduce it more than a single HP from 3/17 since I think that would handicap it from doing its job well. What I could do, however, is increase the cost to reduce the spammability potential... this does mean that the draw can run slightly hot-or-cold based on
your synergy with other creatures (you might get two "strong presence"
creatures or two "rewarded for being attacked" cards), but I think it's
worth it to address the spammability issue. (Also, you guys are right about Sea Sprite - I will simply change the wording so that damage from your own cards won't trigger it).
Rapid Mimosa: I would leave this plant alone, except that we're raising the cost of Fae Gardener into its slot, so I'm lowering the stats and reducing the Cost to 2. To answer questions... Mimosa CAN "jump over" neighboring creatures to find the nearest empty, unopposed slot. And its highest purpose is to put together a strong rush once you're confident you can deal with the unopposed slots ("suicide"). Actually, one change I was thinking of making was to make it nearest empty slot to the right, instead of nearest empty unopposed slot. This would allow it to tank multiple attacks within a turn (probably at the cost of its own life), which would lead to a more defensive use. Do you think this would be a good change?
Carnivore Blossom: To clear up how the lifesteal works - you guys pretty much have it correct. If it has an opposing creature and no neighbor, or has one neighbor and no opposing creature, it will steal 6 life from that creature at the beginning of its turn. If it has one neighbor and an opposing creature, it will steal 3 life from each (for a total of 6). If it has two neighbors and an opposing creature, it will steal 2 life from each (for a total of 6). If it has no neighbors and no opposing creature, it will not steal life. While the intended use for this card is to quickly clean up an opponent's creature (and then become less useful once it has), I do think the concerns about the opponent's ability to simply ignore it are absolutely valid. I'm going to rework the stats and give it a bonus when attacking an opponent while at full health to address these concerns - tell me what you think!
Briar Vineyard: Glad you guys like this one so much - I believe it was actually one of the last cards I came up with to fill the set. I'm of the same mind as Red that Orc Chieftain will only be a situational combo because the +2 attack is often counterbalanced by one less slot to attack. In response to your concern about the high HP Sinist - since you're committing to leaving extra slots open, I don't want to make this card an easy kill. I'll lower the HP slightly.
Ploughshares into Swords: Opinions are mixed here on both balance (whether the double-attack is too powerful) and complexity. I can possibly fix these problems by lowering the damage to something like 7 + 2X and removing the "lose all Botany mana" effect, but I think the point was to remove the Rage of Souls-like perma-threat that would be achieved by pumping your Botany mana to 11 or more. I'm going to leave the card exactly as it is for the moment since opinions are so mixed, but I'm open to ideas here. I'd also be willing to replace it with another spell.
Garden of Good and Evil: A few calls for a nerf here, so I'll reduce its attack by a point to make it a tad less threatening.
Forbidden Flower: I like the feedback for this one a lot and I'm happy to see it in line with the design - a card that needs to be played at the right time because its attack bonuses will often leave you extremely vulnerable and its death bonus can't be triggered at will until it's taken some damage. It will run hot-and-cold (which is why Aenji's "+1 for ALL empty slots" suggestion is a decent one), but I think it will do so based on game situation rather than on your draw, which I'm okay with. Gonna leave it as it is for the moment, pending additional feedback.
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