TheOnion | 2015-01-09 07:46:04 |
And played against a chronomancer, He stacked time magic, summoned 6 chrono engines and had like 6 turns and 70 time magic, ofcourse I had neither enough turns or a strong aoe to counter. I assume this is a bug, or is it balanced ? Modified by TheOnion on 2015-01-09 07:47:59
no it is balanced. you just have to stack fire magic, summon 6 dragons and use your aoe to counter (dragons will make it strong)
wait, was this a genuine question?
Modified by filip on 2015-01-09 08:49:07 TheOnion | 2015-01-09 11:01:45 |
And what makes you think its not genuine ?
And last I checked, I don't get extra fire mana by skipping turns (3 per turn for chrono engine), and dragon is 12 mana and chrono engine is 7 ? so 2 turns and another chrono engine drops ?
Do you know how can I get 5 fire mana per turn ?
srbhkshk | 2015-01-09 11:33:50 |
Don't let him stack time magic.
minhtuan | 2015-01-09 11:36:17 |
You're new so he can do that thing.
Check the important threads on top of this General forum to learn a few things about this game.
Play AI until you can beat Expert Mage easity, play on par with Mastermage, and sometimes win against Archmage. Then you have graduated and can play online.
TheOnion | 2015-01-09 11:46:29 |
You're new so he can do that thing.
Check the important threads on top of this General forum to learn a few things about this game.
Play AI until you can beat Expert Mage easity, play on par with Mastermage, and sometimes win against Archmage. Then you have graduated and can play online. You're new so he can do that thing.
Check the important threads on top of this General forum to learn a few things about this game.
Play AI until you can beat Expert Mage easity, play on par with Mastermage, and sometimes win against Archmage. Then you have graduated and can play online. I,m buffled, So this is actually intended and after 4 - 5 years from release the designers still think its a good idea. I can only hope that people have complained about this so much with no results that they gave up talking about it, so instead of fixing the problem, players are now given the advice of playing againt the Ai, who is clearly programmed to chain drop chrono engines, and this will help them improve in the game. Thank you. srbhkshk | 2015-01-09 11:56:31 |
Play AI until you can beat Expert Mage easity, play on par with Mastermage, and sometimes win against Archmage. Then you have graduated and can play online.
That is not true at all, anyone on par with Mastermage is easily level 10-15 and there is definitely no need to play AI before playing online although it doesn't hurt.
@TheOnion there are certain cards in the game which are not easy to handle, Time-7 is one of those cards, there are specific tactics which can be applied against most such cards though which you will learn as you keep playing. Wavelength | 2015-01-09 13:01:55 |
Try it yourself, Onion. Try chain-dropping Chrono Engines against a good player or against the Archmage, and see where it gets you. Most of the time, you'll be wiped out before you can get the third (or even second) Engine on the board. You'll probably see your winning opponent counter your soft play with cards like Bargul, Steel Golem, Troll, Tornado, Timeweaver, Griffin, or Lightning Bolt. By the time you have 3 Chrono Engines in play, yes, it's almost a guaranteed win. This does not make the card imbalanced. Almost any high-level creature (Master Healer, Mind Master, Dragon, Elementals, Cannon...) will win the game if you have three of them in play at the same time. Think of this as the "board control win condition". You counter this argument by stating that Chrono Engine can pump Time mana, making it "easier" to get three out at the same time, but this is terribly fallacious, because it only pumps Time mana at the cost of turns. So if you're using this ability each turn, you can look at it as a 4/35 that increases your Time growth by 1. In that light, it looks like a horribly underpowered Hypnotist. All in all, your assertion is a lot like saying that Chess is imbalanced because a player with two Queens on the board in the endgame has such a big advantage over the player with none, or that League of Legends is imbalanced because a fed Tryndamere can easily kill a fed Renekton at the 45-minute mark. A good player would point out that such a Chess/LoL match was actually won and lost long before the endgame even happened. I hope that you don't feel like you're being dismissed out-of-hand just because "well this is the way things are". I get that sense from your last post. But know that all of the people responding to you have put significant time (unlike you, at this point at least) into understanding Spectromancer and figuring out ways to beat any individual card with any given hand. Filip in particular is one of the world's top MTG players, and he'll be the first to tell you that Spectro is the single most balanced card game you can find online. Trust me - if there was a way to break the game with an imbalanced card, Filip would have found it long ago. Again, I encourage you to try it out yourself and try to chain multiple Chrono Engines against any good player, myself included. I think you will learn a ton about the game by watching how easily it's beaten. Modified by Wavelength on 2015-01-09 13:05:12 TheOnion | 2015-01-09 14:31:44 |
I appreciate your post, but note that having 3 elementals or dragons costs from 30 to 36 mana while chrono engine is 7 mana, so its so much easier to get it out, sure if used to pump 1 mana per turn it looks like a Hypnotist, but that is only one of many ways to use this card while Hypnotist has 2 straightforward effects. I will say that the fact I enjoy playing the game against anything but a chronomancer (and a lucky chaos player) tells me something is not right, so I,l just be skipping matches against that class and pretend it doesn't exist.
Modified by TheOnion on 2015-01-09 14:35:36
hey onion - sry about my first reply, i thought you were just kidding around
as with most of the high-cost cards, you need to have a plan before it actually hits the board. perhaps you can try to swarm your opponent with lots of small creatures, or hold mana for a tornado, or be at the ready with a strong creature to put in the opposite slot and follow up with an inferno, or go for the throat and deal damage to the player to kill him/her before the high-cost card can take over the game
please take some time to read the very first topic in this forum ("pinned: important threads") - it will answer all of your questions about the game, even some ones you hadn't thought about yet :P
hey wave - thx for your nice words i wouldn't say i am one of the world's top MTG players. i do take the game very seriously though and i have managed to come up with some solid results. i was a member of the greek national team that finished 11th in the world cup last year - also several GP day2 finishes and a couple of GP money finishes (top32 and top64) but that's all mamoulian | 2015-01-09 14:48:42 |
However there is a topic about chrono class is being owerpowered opened by Filip. :P So that's a valid point, but it's not one card, and the class not that owerpowered, it really was your tactic I think. On the other hand I think chrono could be very much fun both playing it or against it, so just keep it up the training and find a way to beat it.
Modified by mamoulian on 2015-01-09 14:48:56 Cooler | 2015-01-09 15:53:27 |
you just have to stack fire magic, summon 6 dragons and use your aoe to counter (dragons will make it strong) 6 dragons is kinda genius strategy! Shame on me - I haven't tried it before!
HeadphonesGirl | 2015-01-09 19:05:52 |
I appreciate your post, but note that having 3 elementals or dragons costs from 30 to 36 mana while chrono engine is 7 mana, so its so much easier to get it out, sure if used to pump 1 mana per turn it looks like a Hypnotist, but that is only one of many ways to use this card while Hypnotist has 2 straightforward effects.
I will say that the fact I enjoy playing the game against anything but a chronomancer (and a lucky chaos player) tells me something is not right, so I,l just be skipping matches against that class and pretend it doesn't exist. Most players agree the time class is somewhat overpowered. However, chrono engine is not the reason, and certainly not stacking it. It's a strong card but an experienced player will not let you get away with just stacking it.
I realize if you are new to the game this might be hard to just accept, but you're getting it from people who have been playing the game competitively for years and are high-ranked in competition. If you really think this strategy is overpowered, prove it by beating these players with it. Wavelength | 2015-01-09 20:00:15 |
I appreciate your post, but note that having 3 elementals or dragons costs from 30 to 36 mana while chrono engine is 7 mana, so its so much easier to get it out, sure if used to pump 1 mana per turn it looks like a Hypnotist, but that is only one of many ways to use this card while Hypnotist has 2 straightforward effects. This is all true, no doubt, but I feel you're missing the forest for the trees. Chrono Engine forces you to make the either/or choice between a few different powerful effects, which is still a great effect in total, but it's compensated for by high cost and relatively low stats. Like filip mentioned, some of the pinned threads and other popular threads from this forum contain some good info that will help put this in perspective (such as the higher value of Special mana and the reviews of Board Presence). I
will say that the fact I enjoy playing the game against anything but a
chronomancer (and a lucky chaos player) tells me something is not right,
so I,l just be skipping matches against that class and pretend it
doesn't exist. That's fair. There's a reasonable contingent of people that don't like the Time class (which I don't get at all - it's my favorite class; Death is the only one I dislike for its tendency to drag the game to a standstill). And if it's not your thing, no problem. There's actually agreement that Time is slightly overpowered (I believe it had a 53% winrate at the last compilation, putting it in first place for two straight compilations), although in a rare showing of intellectual discord, this community has not come to a consensus about which cards are making it overpowered. (I personally believe it's Timeweaver and Time Stop.) There is a strong consensus, though, that there aren't any cards (Chrono Engine included ) that are nearly as broken as you are making Chrono Engine out to be.
CyberneticPony | 2015-01-10 23:19:35 |
Obvious troll is obvious, the guy clearly has no concept of efficiency. Like... how can you even get 3 Chrono Engines on the board without them being killed off? Apparently this guy just sits there and lets it happen.
HeadphonesGirl | 2015-01-11 03:41:21 |
Obvious troll is obvious, the guy clearly has no concept of efficiency.
Like... how can you even get 3 Chrono Engines on the board without them being killed off? Apparently this guy just sits there and lets it happen.
I saw SeaLeta do it to a good player once. He killed them with an infinite time stop loop. It was funny.
It's definitely possible. It requires a hand that's conducive to it, and very careful planning. If you do manage to pull it off you deserve the victory.
I saw SeaLeta do it to a good player once. He killed them with an infinite time stop loop. It was funny.
a time stop loop can be done with 2 engines only but it's still no easy task to win with it, i agree fully
Modified by filip on 2015-01-11 13:23:22 Wavelength | 2015-01-11 10:08:10 |
Obvious troll is obvious, the guy clearly has no concept of efficiency.
Like... how can you even get 3 Chrono Engines on the board without them being killed off? Apparently this guy just sits there and lets it happen.
He's incorrect about Chrono Engine but that doesn't make him a troll. Lots of new players fixate on a certain Special House card and thinks it breaks the game, and it's not a bad thing when they air their thoughts here because it's usually a good opportunity to teach them about the game. CyberneticPony | 2015-01-16 01:22:51 |
... He's incorrect about Chrono Engine but that doesn't make him a troll. Lots of new players fixate on a certain Special House card and thinks it breaks the game, and it's not a bad thing when they air their thoughts here because it's usually a good opportunity to teach them about the game.
In my case, I've always thought the most broken card was White Elephant. Eurydice | 2015-01-16 05:10:57 |
... In my case, I've always thought the most broken card was White Elephant.
You said white elephant, are you sure you did you not mean magic hamster? Wavelength | 2015-01-17 03:28:33 |
In my case, I've always thought the most broken card was White Elephant. Ah, you're from the Zannoland School of Spectromancer, I see! White Elephant does look so broken at first glance (it's a 45HP heal AND a creature with 8 attack!) but if you want to take that as its base utility, then it comes with some hidden maluses. Essentially, every point of creature damage you do to it is converted into more valuable opponent damage, and additionally, damaging the opponent can also protect your own life by killing the 8-attack creature quicker. In all I feel like it's a strong card (and very strong combined with Ice Guard) but usually counterable unless you're holding the Chain Lightning Screw (where Chain Lightning is your only basic creature damage spell AND your only basic direct damage spell). You said white elephant, are you sure you did you not mean magic hamster? Love this comment. Argh, that #$%@ing hamster!! Interestingly, Plynx thinks that Scorpion is the strongest card in the set! So maybe we've all been missing something... HeadphonesGirl | 2015-01-17 04:28:45 |
Interestingly, Plynx thinks that Scorpion is the strongest card in the set! So maybe we've all been missing something...
I remember when Beast was brand new I played a bunch of matches against TurinTuramba and he thought that Beast 3 was broken. I asked him what situations he thought he would play it in as opposed to 2 or 4, and he said, "when you would not play it?" Always interesting to me how much opinions vary among high level players in this game. |