| Estarh | 2010-01-14 19:02:57 |
Three new classes were added: Sorcerer, Demonologist and Beastmaster.
Default class was changed to Illusionist.
Players now are able to setup their Random class, it can be done in options window. (for example it is possible to choose "any class except Illusionist").
League of Heroes was added to singleplayer mode.
Arena room was added to online league. There will be special rules for duels in this room and these rules will be changed each week.
Save replay feature was added.
Some of existing cards were changed:
Water Elemental now has 38 life (down from 40 life).
Faerie Sage now heals not more than 10 life.
Wall of Lightnings now deals 4 damage each turn and has 28 life (was 32 life and 3 damage each turn)
Giant Spider now is 4/21 creature (up from 4/20).
Archangel now is 8/48 creature (up from 8/44) and now it doesn't increase owner's Air power.
Cursed Fog now deals 12 damage to each creature and 3 damage to opponent (was 12 damage to each creature and 3 damage to each player).
Banshee now is 4/20 creature (up from 4/19).
Emissary of Dorlak now is 7/45 creature (up from 7/42).
Spectral Assassin now is 6/22 creature (down from 6/24).
Spectral Mage now is 7/35 creature (down from 7/37).
Oracle now is 8/40 creature (down from 9/40).
Hypnotyst now is 5/38 creature (down from 5/40).
Mindstealer now is 8/35 creature (up from 8/33).
Ancient Giant now is 9/50 creature (down from 9/52).
Doom Bolt now deals 25 damage (up from 24).
Insanian Shaman now is 3/22 creature (up from 3/21).
| Wavelength | 2010-01-14 19:11:58 |
Congrats on the release! I'll have to wait until tonight to try it out, but most of the additions look good! I especially love the Random Class options. I'm a little scared to see how Beastmaster plays. My guess is, true to its name, it will be a beast. I'm not sure why Illusionist keeps getting nerfed. Otherwise, the changes sound good at first look. Faerie Sage cap was smart. Wall of Lightnings change is surprising. Archangel change will be welcomed. Cursed Fog change was a good idea. Banshee buff is nice but it won't be enough. Both Chaos changes look good. I just really wish something would be done about Dragon and Merfolk Apostate. Cheers!
Modified by Wavelength on 2010-01-14 19:15:12 | HeadphonesGirl | 2010-01-14 20:45:49 |
woohoo! glad to see it's out. I'm looking forward to trying it later tonight as well.
I like most of the card changes as well. While I am against too much bitching about changes, I do have to say I am totally baffled by the changes to illusion cards, in particular that you guys nerfed Hypnotist again... he was already probably the worst 8 special creature in the game. The poor guy has got almost nothing now. | Zannoland | 2010-01-14 21:00:06 |
Are there any new banned combinations in version?
There are only three that seriously need to be looked into:
Blood Ritual + Lightning Wall
Blood Ritual + Sea Sprite
Poisonous Cloud + Dragon
| wiggin | 2010-01-14 21:00:18 |
I agree with the previous posters. The Illusion cards were fine as they were, I think. Do you have statistics that show that illusion is winning overall?
I like all the other changes. (Ok maybe except for Water Elemental nerf.)
| Zannoland | 2010-01-14 21:04:07 |
I agree with the previous posters. The Illusion cards were fine as they were, I think. Do you have statistics that show that illusion is winning overall?
I like all the other changes. (Ok maybe except for Water Elemental nerf.) I actually wonder if these changes are all my fault. I play a lot of games and I mostly play illusion and beat on scrubs because I don't have the patience to wait around for a player of my skill. I see very few other players logging illusion games at all, so it would be kind of bad if my sandbagging was the singlehanded reason for the nerf :\ The changes to Illusion 5/6 I actually think is a good idea, because I play these cards more than the rest of the deck. However, this is mostly because Ilusion 7/8 has a crippling vulnerability to tornado, so I will only use these if I have tornado in deck. Illusion 7, in particular, I feel might be too weak now, and I can absolutely guarantee you Hypnotist needs buffs, not nerfs. Modified by Zannoland on 2010-01-14 21:05:49 | wiggin | 2010-01-14 21:08:47 |
I was pretty certain Demon Quartermaster was overpowered before, and I still am.
| Estarh | 2010-01-14 21:10:32 |
Illusion was nerfed because it is default class. There were too many clerics in version 1.03, and we want to avoid similar situation in 1.1 version.
| Wavelength | 2010-01-14 21:11:05 |
Yeah, I was a little surprised at the Water Elemental nerf too. It's a good card in a vacuum, but if it's one of your only 2 healing cards, drawing it has actually made it harder for you to win the game most of the time.
| wiggin | 2010-01-14 21:13:47 |
If I cast Hellfire, and his demonic creatures die and respawn, I think I should still get firepower bonus.
| Zannoland | 2010-01-14 21:43:22 |
Bug report: Gives me "Trial version vs archmage is limited to 10 single duels" Please remove this line of code from the beta, as there won't be many people online to play beta with. Edit: Restarting the game seems to circumvent this, which could also possibly be considered a bug too? Modified by Zannoland on 2010-01-14 21:44:37 | wiggin | 2010-01-14 21:46:56 |
Illusion was nerfed because it is default class. There were too many clerics in version 1.03, and we want to avoid similar situation in 1.1 version. Seems a little annoying to us regulars though, as it is the general sentiment that illusion was already weak.
| wiggin | 2010-01-14 21:57:15 |
How does the arena work, rating wise? And when do the rules change?
| Forgin | 2010-01-14 22:18:17 |
Woohoo I can't wait to play, thanks guys! :D
| Zannoland | 2010-01-14 22:30:27 |
observation: something in the draw mechanics has changed so that earth 4 can now be your low card.
| wiggin | 2010-01-14 22:51:23 |
The Duel as Spectromancer duels always crash on the first turn.
Also, why do the two players have the exact same houses. Then you know what cards your opponent has. Would be much better with random houses. (Ok except I still hate Death.)
| Zannoland | 2010-01-14 23:08:52 |
The Duel as Spectromancer duels always crash on the first turn.
Also, why do the two players have the exact same houses. Then you know what cards your opponent has. Would be much better with random houses. (Ok except I still hate Death.) what's to hate? death mirrors are probably the second most balanced behind control mirrors.
| wiggin | 2010-01-14 23:13:52 |
Just a personal thing. I think it's boring. Not saying other people feel like that, or that the class is unbalanced.
Wait Illusion was nerfed simply because it is now the free class and not because it actually deserved it? That's very sad news for me considering Illusion was my favorite (and probably best) class. I'll probably switch to Demonologist.
| Zannoland | 2010-01-15 00:32:56 |
Phoenix no longer dies to tornado. Bug or intentional?
| HazzarD | 2010-01-15 00:42:11 |
problems with 1024x600 resolution, On netbook asus eee 1000 it automatically set to 1024x768(and wish to add wide screen resolutions and netbook resolution support)
| Zannoland | 2010-01-15 00:45:01 |
Bug: Mana Burn will only target elemental powers. This is fine, but correct the card text to make this clear.
| HeadphonesGirl | 2010-01-15 03:17:21 |
Just a personal thing. I think it's boring. Not saying other people feel like that, or that the class is unbalanced. Agreed. Can't stand playing it or playing against it. It just draws games out too much.
Only fun thing about it is trying to find ridiculous uses for 3 and 4. | garcia1000 | 2010-01-15 03:28:32 |
I think there was too much holy previously because holy was one of the most powerful classes. Illusion is already one of the weakest classes, I don't think it needs a nerf. In fact it could use some buffs!
This is just from a design view. Maybe things are different from a profit point of view. Like, you want to make free players angry that they are losing because they have a bad class, so they will pay? But from a long term perspective that doesn't seem good.
I am excited about the new classes, will try them out when I get home!
Modified by garcia1000 on 2010-01-15 03:29:31 | Wavelength | 2010-01-15 03:45:14 |
As a suggestion, for the official release, why not allow players to customize their Random Class selection while they are in the multiplayer lobby?
| HeadphonesGirl | 2010-01-15 04:08:02 |
Well, I suppose, in theory, they don't necessarily need to operate under the principle that every class should be as close to even as possible. Maybe some are just meant to be better. I suppose as long as there's a balanced metagame to be found, it's okay in the end. Nerfing a card that's already so weak high level players almost never use it seems a bit excessive though. I can see nerfing the assassin a bit I guess since he's one of the really great illusion cards. Modified by HeadphonesGirl on 2010-01-15 04:08:42 | soldat12 | 2010-01-15 06:06:51 |
good to hear such news!
small comments:
change>> Hypnotyst now is 5/38 creature (down from 5/40). > seems pretty odd. i imagine very few situations when it will be wise to use it. almost all special special creatures 8 have instant game effect to take advantage over the board. but when you play illusion, you have to wait about 2 turns to ever use the advantage of your additional 2 mana, which is delaying a lot.
also, if you're already losing board control, playing hypnosyst willn't help you much to get it, cause 1 and 3 illuion is just a spells, and 2 illusion is very debatable choice if you dont have board cleaners. (sure wonderfull illu4, but again, you have to wait 2 turns for that).
also, as it discussed widely, maybe u will cap dmg of blood ritual (so dont need to ban death5+lighting wall or water2..)
and as you know, dragon discussing like in every other thread over there - maybe u'll change him to 33% dmg? Modified by soldat12 on 2010-01-15 06:12:17 | garcia1000 | 2010-01-15 06:34:01 |
Also
Players now are able to setup their Random class, it can be done in options window. (for example it is possible to choose "any class except Illusionist"). SWEET
League of Heroes was added to singleplayer mode. No idea what this is
Arena room was added to online league. There will be special rules for duels in this room and these rules will be changed each week. SWEET
Save replay feature was added. Can we share this with other people? If so, SWEET
Sorcery 4 is still ridiculously overpowered. :( | DarkKarma06 | 2010-01-15 06:50:21 |
good to hear such news!
small comments:
change>> Hypnotyst now is 5/38 creature (down from 5/40). > seems pretty odd. i imagine very few situations when it will be wise to use it. almost all special special creatures 8 have instant game effect to take advantage over the board. but when you play illusion, you have to wait about 2 turns to ever use the advantage of your additional 2 mana, which is delaying a lot.
also, if you're already losing board control, playing hypnosyst willn't help you much to get it, cause 1 and 3 illuion is just a spells, and 2 illusion is very debatable choice if you dont have board cleaners. (sure wonderfull illu4, but again, you have to wait 2 turns for that).
Umm..you realize it still does instant 5 dam vs opp, and all opp creatures on summon right?
| wiggin | 2010-01-15 09:05:16 |
Sorcery 4 is still ridiculously overpowered.:( Or at least with potential to be. I'm also rather sure Demon 5 is way overpowered, although I'm still the only one mentioning it. I will also call sorcery 8. Overall they haven't changed anything from when they announced it, have they? I hope they are open for Beta feedback before making official version. The Arena seems great fun though.
Modified by wiggin on 2010-01-15 09:17:29 | Derizat | 2010-01-15 09:07:37 |
I suggest changing the text of Basilisk to "6 damage to all creatures with 6 or lower hp" instead of "destroy". It is completely broken against illusion 2 in the current condition.
| Estarh | 2010-01-15 09:26:16 |
Illusion is already one of the weakest classes, I don't think it needs a nerf. In fact it could use some buffs!
According server statistics (last 6 weeks) Illusion had better win/lose ratio than any other class. It had poor results in duels of top players, but It was very strong in duels of low level players and medim level players.
| DarkKarma06 | 2010-01-15 09:34:26 |
I suggest changing the text of Basilisk to "6 damage to all creatures with 6 or lower hp" instead of "destroy". It is completely broken against illusion 2 in the current condition.
Also works against both golems and pheonix
edit-i also dont mind it working against pheonix, 20 min games where i have to do 200+ damage because of pheonix+super healing isnt what i call fun. Modified by DarkKarma06 on 2010-01-15 11:04:24 | Kerchu | 2010-01-15 09:34:48 |
which clas haw worst ratio?
| garcia1000 | 2010-01-15 09:49:26 |
According server statistics (last 6 weeks) Illusion had better win/lose ratio than any other class. It had poor results in duels of top players, but It was very strong in duels of low level players and medim level players.
Oh! Okay, although I don't agree with the nerf, I can understand why it was nerfed now! | wiggin | 2010-01-15 10:10:06 |
... According server statistics (last 6 weeks) Illusion had better win/lose ratio than any other class. It had poor results in duels of top players, but It was very strong in duels of low level players and medim level players.
Lol. Zannolands theory might actually be right about this.
| Kerchu | 2010-01-15 10:51:46 |
i played illusion 60-20 on low levels , my bad too :(
| Estarh | 2010-01-15 11:59:49 |
Phoenix no longer dies to tornado. Bug or intentional? It is intentional.
| Wavelength | 2010-01-15 15:15:22 |
Phoenix dying when hit by Tornado was brilliant--why revert it?
I've seen Fire Drake and Rejuvenation (both Cost 4) as the lowest card in their House in a few games; was this intentional, or a bug?
In my first dozen or so games I got the sense that all three new classes are far and away superior to the old ones, though I'm not going to start railing against them until I at least get better at understanding and countering them.
Demon 1 (Lemure) seems like the most overpowered card in the game to me right now, since it gives you good board control, is by far the best life-to-cost creature, can be spammed, and can even stand up to Stone Rain and Armageddon half as well as Ice Golem and Steel Golem. Also, cards like Hellfire and Steal Essence should activate on turning a Lemure into a Scrambled Lemure, since the Lemure is (according to all text) dying.
Most of Beastmaster isn't quite the broken world I was expecting, but Scorpion and White Elephant do seem to be Overpowered at the moment.
I actually like that Basilisk stomps Phantom Warrior. It's the counterpoint to the ridiculous combination with Master Healer.
I still think Sacrifice is going to be way overpowered in conjunction with Dragon, but I haven't seen it yet (since all of my Sac + Dragon draws had their mass destruction in the Fire school). Otherwise, I don't see Sacrifice being too bad. You lose a LOT of board advantage to make it happen. Maybe Sacrifice + Stone Rain will have to be banned if it isn't already.
Final thought for now: Disintegrate seems a lot better than Sonic Boom. I don't have a good sense of how they balance against other cards in the game yet, but they do seem to be badly balanced against each other.
| Forgin | 2010-01-15 15:40:45 |
Bug: When playing League of Heroes I can't see the cards my opponent has played (when you press that button on the left). And the current Arena rule (can't reuse cards until you've used all cards in that house) is rather harsh on Beastmaster because it doesn't allow you to use the beasts' ability (not even once). Modified by Forgin on 2010-01-15 15:48:23 | Wavelength | 2010-01-15 16:01:49 |
Hey, Cooler, do you think you could add the new cards to the dynamic text on the forums? (So mousing over Healing Spray or Beastmaster 6 or Breathe Fire would show those cards, like Merfolk Elder does)? Thanks!!
| wiggin | 2010-01-15 16:05:56 |
Can you make a Arena rank list? Im trying to be number 1, and it sucks not knowing what the opposition is.
| garcia1000 | 2010-01-15 17:22:12 |
Does Sorcerer 4 have a billion banned combos? I almost never draw it.
| Zannoland | 2010-01-15 18:52:28 |
Phoenix dying when hit by Tornado was brilliant--why revert it?
I've seen Fire Drake and Rejuvenation (both Cost 4) as the lowest card in their House in a few games; was this intentional, or a bug?
In my first dozen or so games I got the sense that all three new classes are far and away superior to the old ones, though I'm not going to start railing against them until I at least get better at understanding and countering them.
Demon 1 (Lemure) seems like the most overpowered card in the game to me right now, since it gives you good board control, is by far the best life-to-cost creature, can be spammed, and can even stand up to Stone Rain and Armageddon half as well as Ice Golem and Steel Golem. Also, cards like Hellfire and Steal Essence should activate on turning a Lemure into a Scrambled Lemure, since the Lemure is (according to all text) dying.
Most of Beastmaster isn't quite the broken world I was expecting, but Scorpion and White Elephant do seem to be Overpowered at the moment.
I actually like that Basilisk stomps Phantom Warrior. It's the counterpoint to the ridiculous combination with Master Healer.
I still think Sacrifice is going to be way overpowered in conjunction with Dragon, but I haven't seen it yet (since all of my Sac + Dragon draws had their mass destruction in the Fire school). Otherwise, I don't see Sacrifice being too bad. You lose a LOT of board advantage to make it happen. Maybe Sacrifice + Stone Rain will have to be banned if it isn't already.
Final thought for now: Disintegrate seems a lot better than Sonic Boom. I don't have a good sense of how they balance against other cards in the game yet, but they do seem to be badly balanced against each other. Sonic Boom damages opponent, which is something that completely slipped by me.
| Cooler | 2010-01-15 22:07:58 |
Hey, Cooler, do you think you could add the new cards to the dynamic text on the forums? (So mousing over Healing Spray or Beastmaster 6 or Breathe Fire would show those cards, like Merfolk Elder does)? Thanks!! Sure! As far as I reach my workplace on monday :) And the Arena ranking too.
| SeaLeta | 2010-01-16 07:25:44 |
i don't understand
beast2, 5, 7 ability + Dragon = damage same
but control1&3 = beast ability cost increase
is beast ability spell? not speell?
it is irony... Modified by SeaLeta on 2010-01-16 07:35:45 | Forgin | 2010-01-16 10:09:53 |
i don't understand beast2, 5, 7 ability + Dragon = damage same but control1&3 = beast ability cost increase is beast ability spell? not speell? it is irony...
I think it is because the spell description for the cards says "Scorpion deals 14 damage to target creature" So it's a spell that makes the creature do the damage. And since dragon only affects damage done by spells, it doesn't affect these cards. It's like how Dragon does increase Natural Fury but not Illusion 3, because Illusion 3 says "Makes opponents 2 strongest creatures attack opponent" while Natural Fury does the damage itself.
| Xanatar | 2010-01-16 10:30:34 |
Now Phoenix isn't destroyable?Tornado,Blood Ritual,Sacrifice don't kill it?
| wiggin | 2010-01-16 10:45:41 |
I agree with Sealeta. It says ability, so control 1 shouldn't apply, unless the text is changed to "spell or ability". Damping tower says "cards", so that makes sense to me.
| soldat12 | 2010-01-16 10:49:22 |
nkinda "bug" - need to clarify more. if you try to use sorcery4 on some of Demonic creatures with <=4 hp, you dont gain mana if creature ressurects in new one
p.s. also demonic5 so much OP comparing to the chaos5 or even chaos6 Modified by soldat12 on 2010-01-16 10:50:01 | HeadphonesGirl | 2010-01-16 11:59:05 |
I think the new classes create some interesting ways to deal with some stuff that needed it, like fast dragon draws and arma. That's certainly interesting. All 3 seem a bit too strong at the moment, but I'm not jumping to any conclusions except I'm still pretty sure beast is ridiculous.
| soldat12 | 2010-01-16 12:41:08 |
how to disable descriptions of cards in league of heroes when computer using it? hvnt foudd it in options Modified by soldat12 on 2010-01-16 12:41:32 | undefeated | 2010-01-16 13:25:17 |
I like basilisk against ill 2 ).. but I actually think beastmaster is weak.. maybe i must use hamster more?.. and everything in sorcery is countered by control 1... but demonic is strong; like soldat said, demon 5 is too strong.
| Estarh | 2010-01-16 13:29:22 |
is beast ability spell? No, it is not a spell and control 1 will not affect it in 1.1 final version.
| wiggin | 2010-01-16 16:12:47 |
I like basilisk against ill 2 ).. but I actually think beastmaster is weak.. maybe i must use hamster more?.. and everything in sorcery is countered by control 1... but demonic is strong; like soldat said, demon 5 is too strong. Like I said! I called Demon 5. Even back to the first announcement of the classes, back in the last decade. Quote: "5 - This looks way too strong. Are you sure you are not
under-estimating the power of respawning.? Lets compare him to chaos 5.
The effect is about the same (+1 special v -2 random), a little
stronger effect for chaos 5 though. Their stats are about the same. And
then when this guy dies you get a free large creature. Also remember
the huge synergy with stone rain or arma." And I don't like Basilisk against Ill 2. It makes the card unplayable against Beastmaster. Modified by wiggin on 2010-01-16 16:16:11 | Wavelength | 2010-01-16 17:14:02 |
I plan to send all the bugs and spelling mistakes I find to the address mentioned later, but since I haven't started making the list yet, here's two that I found casually while playing last night:
1: The "targetting boxes" seem to be messed up. When I click on a creature, normally all the empty boxes on my side should have the little spinning box to show that I can play the creature there. Instead, it only appears on the rightmost empty slot, and it's really thick, as if several different targetting boxes all showed up on the rightmost slot. (For the record, I am playing using Windows XP and fullscreen mode.)
2: Several card texts use the word "it's" to mean "belongs to it". I think the Beehive was one example. There should be no apostrophe there; it should be "its". "It's" can only be used to mean "it is"; it is one of the exceptions to the rules of English.
| Wavelength | 2010-01-16 17:20:01 |
And I don't like Basilisk against Ill 2. It makes the card unplayable against Beastmaster. How would you change it? If you made Basilisk read "does six damage to creatures with 6 or less life", you could protect those creatures with Holy Guard, Golems would be completely safe, and so on. This is absolutely ridiculous in my mind, so I really feel you can't change it. In fact, I feel Basilisk should get rid of Phoenix! (Like the way Blood Ritual works, and the way Tornado should work, the card is destroyed rather than the creature dying.) At any rate, I like that Basilisk completely destroys Phantom Warrior, because it's the flip side of the coin to Master Healer completely healing him (making him basically invulnerable). If you were going to make Phantom Warrior only take one damage from an effect like that, it would be only fair to reduce all heals on Phantom Warrior to one point as well.
| HeadphonesGirl | 2010-01-16 21:07:12 |
I agree that basilisk making illusion 2 unplayable is OK. I think it's fine for things to have 100% counters every now and then as long as the whole deck isn't countered--there are plenty of other things you can do with illusion.
| FinalSlayer | 2010-01-16 21:34:52 |
Overall, I think the changes are positive, with the exception of the odd changes to Illusion. (Especially Illusion 8, already the worst 8 special mana card in the game, becoming even crappier)
That being said, I would have liked to see some nerfs to Control 2 and/or the dreaded Control 5/Control 6 combo, as well as the still insane and overpowered Dragon.
| undefeated | 2010-01-16 22:57:40 |
...
Like I said! I called Demon 5. Even back to the first announcement of the classes, back in the last decade.
Quote: "5 - This looks way too strong. Are you sure you are notunder-estimating the power of respawning.? Lets compare him to chaos 5.The effect is about the same (+1 special v -2 random), a littlestronger effect for chaos 5 though. Their stats are about the same. Andthen when this guy dies you get a free large creature. Also rememberthe huge synergy with stone rain or arma."
Wiggin the prophet. | Zannoland | 2010-01-16 23:06:42 |
I agree that basilisk making illusion 2 unplayable is OK. I think it's fine for things to have 100% counters every now and then as long as the whole deck isn't countered--there are plenty of other things you can do with illusion. Tornado makes Illusion 7 and 8 unplayable, Stone Rain makes Chaos 5 and 6 unplayable, Fire 2 makes Control 1 unplayable, Water 8 makes Chaos 2 unplayable, Holy 4 makes your accelerator unplayable, I could go on and on, so I really don't see what the big deal is about this issue.
Modified by Zannoland on 2010-01-16 23:07:11 | FinalSlayer | 2010-01-16 23:15:30 |
... Tornado makes Illusion 7 and 8 unplayable, Stone Rain makes Chaos 5 and 6 unplayable, Fire 2 makes Control 1 unplayable, Water 8 makes Chaos 2 unplayable, Holy 4 makes your accelerator unplayable, I could go on and on, so I really don't see what the big deal is about this issue.
None of those is a hard counter. Having an opponent waste a Tornado on my Illusion 7 or 8 is a trade I will gladly and often make. (Especially if I have a Dragon card looming) Occasionally, the same will be true regarding Stone Rain if I have Chaos 6, and Acid Rain on Chaos 2. Fire 2 helps fight against Control 1, but does not firmly counter in any way.
Modified by FinalSlayer on 2010-01-16 23:15:57 | Wavelength | 2010-01-17 05:06:54 |
... Tornado makes Illusion 7 and 8 unplayable, Stone Rain makes Chaos 5 and 6 unplayable, Fire 2 makes Control 1 unplayable, Water 8 makes Chaos 2 unplayable, Holy 4 makes your accelerator unplayable, I could go on and on, so I really don't see what the big deal is about this issue.
You've got a reeeeeeeally interesting definition of "unplayable", sir. (On the other hand, Control 8 makes all cards unplayable!...for one turn.)
| soldat12 | 2010-01-17 10:08:53 |
...
(On the other hand, Control 8 makes all cards unplayable!...for one turn.)
hehe, nice point.
water4 makes stone rain unplayable!
| wiggin | 2010-01-17 14:03:58 |
Please for the love of god, change the spam messages rule in the game chat. So annoying, aargh.
| AnGelTears | 2010-01-17 18:27:40 |
where is the download of the new version? i dont find it... *-*
| anavasoothed | 2010-01-17 20:40:26 |
I've play tested the game. I gotta say, I like where you guys
are going with this. The new classes seem so much more interesting
than the old, and the game is compulsively playable. I understand the
challenges that are faced with balance, but that's what play testing is
good for. I am spreading the word. Hopefully your fan base will grow! but please, don't make us pay more for 1.1 official.. Modified by anavasoothed on 2010-01-17 20:41:24 | Wavelength | 2010-01-17 21:03:44 |
Please for the love of god, change the spam messages rule in the game chat. So annoying, aargh. Agree! This player community isn't the type to annoy opponents with spam, and if you think the filter is so necessary, please just block the THIRD text within a few seconds, rather than the second.
| HeadphonesGirl | 2010-01-18 03:21:52 |
I've play tested the game. I gotta say, I like where you guysare going with this. The new classes seem so much more interestingthan the old, and the game is compulsively playable. I understand thechallenges that are faced with balance, but that's what play testing isgood for. I am spreading the word. Hopefully your fan base will grow! but please, don't make us pay more for 1.1 official..
You can't honestly expect them to keep working on the game this much for free. Man up and pay for the expansion. They normally cost money. | garcia1000 | 2010-01-18 04:23:53 |
Lol yeah, these guys are the most actively anti-revenue generation indie guys ever, man, just pay the $15 or $20 or whatever! Most companies would have released a far worse version months ago to get some money. Modified by garcia1000 on 2010-01-18 04:24:15 | CIever | 2010-01-18 05:09:10 |
I pay no heed to someone discussed Basilisk's passive ability to destroy >10-Fire-Phoenix&Golems. Did I take notice of permanent ability or it's just beta-testing peculiarity? Modified by CIever on 2010-01-18 05:12:05 | anavasoothed | 2010-01-18 06:36:01 |
Lol yeah, these guys are the most actively anti-revenue generation indie guys ever, man, just pay the $15 or $20 or whatever! Most companies would have released a far worse version months ago to get some money. I have, and that's my real concern. Yes, I'll pay for an expansion, but I just paid 20 for the game 2 days ago. Am I going to have to pay the same amount as someone new who hasn't put that down? Or, on the other side, will we now have to pay 40 dollars for the whole game? That seems far fetched. Ok, what would be sensible, in my opinion, is to perhaps charge 20 bucks for the game, and then five to ten more for the expansion. This would make the total price of the game 20-30 bucks. A high but still fair price for a game with such little content as this. But what happens then at 1.2? Would you really feel good paying 60+ dollars for a quick DL game? If I thought the game would have stopped right there, at the version I paid for, I wouldn't have paid that much. I paid, expecting a lot of updates and cards to come. | anavasoothed | 2010-01-18 06:37:53 |
wait.. 1.1 IS the expansion we are talking about, right? Or am I just mixing information?
| Noctilucus | 2010-01-18 08:31:20 |
...
I have, and that's my real concern. Yes, I'll pay for an expansion, but I just paid 20 for the game 2 days ago. Am I going to have to pay the same amount as someone new who hasn't put that down? Or, on the other side, will we now have to pay 40 dollars for the whole game? That seems far fetched. Ok, what would be sensible, in my opinion, is to perhaps charge 20 bucks for the game, and then five to ten more for the expansion. This would make the total price of the game 20-30 bucks. A high but still fair price for a game with such little content as this. But what happens then at 1.2? Would you really feel good paying 60+ dollars for a quick DL game? If I thought the game would have stopped right there, at the version I paid for, I wouldn't have paid that much. I paid, expecting a lot of updates and cards to come. Very valid arguments! While I do see the point that you can't expect an infinite number of expansions for free, a total price of more than $25 - 30 would seem quite expensive for Spectromancer.
| soldat12 | 2010-01-18 09:14:33 |
...
Very valid arguments! While I do see the point that you can't expect an infinite number of expansions for free, a total price of more than $25 - 30 would seem quite expensive for Spectromancer.
i think developers will just enable all 5 "standard" classes for these, who bought 1st version;
and 3 new classes will be avaliable only for additional 20$.
imo it's very logical and best way to solve it if they do like that.
and sure enough, 1.1 sounds like a patch. not as expanasion :)
so if you want to ppl pay for 1.2 (iff planned) u better name it as "Spectromancer2" :)
Modified by soldat12 on 2010-01-18 09:16:02 | Forgin | 2010-01-18 10:40:09 |
It's $20 we're talking about here, that's really not that much for the many hours of Spectromancer I've played.
Stop being cheap!
| calmon | 2010-01-18 12:18:19 |
I'm somehow angry about the illussion changes. I really like to play it in the last year because i don't want to play mainstream holy or control. I never find it overpowered in any way.
Now you say you nerf my favorite class because you make it the new default?
Thats a bad argument for me as a paying customer. I feel like forced to change my class immediately to play competive and thats not good!
| wiggin | 2010-01-18 13:14:58 |
I agree with Calmon. Annoying decision for us regulars. You are practically taking away one class, with respect to high level play. And it was one of the most entertaining ones, in my opinion.
| garcia1000 | 2010-01-18 16:35:53 |
Agree with Calmon/wiggin.
You're not paying for a quick DL game, you are paying for genius game design! Seriously this game design is so good. And the balancing is pretty top notch too (okay, I don't understand the Illusion nerf either, but that's just a small thing)
| Tobias | 2010-01-18 17:31:53 |
I believe cooler has said the expansion will cost 10$ (and to my knowledge he's in the know-how), which is cheap in my eyes.
Sadly I bought AI Wars not a day before the release was announced, and one new game at a time is plenty for me. I'm looking forward to seeing for myself all the stuff you're talking about though. :-) | Zannoland | 2010-01-18 21:36:16 |
I'm somehow angry about the illussion changes. I really like to play it in the last year because i don't want to play mainstream holy or control. I never find it overpowered in any way.
Now you say you nerf my favorite class because you make it the new default?
Thats a bad argument for me as a paying customer. I feel like forced to change my class immediately to play competive and thats not good! except to oracle, the illusion changes are really immaterial leave oracle a 9 damage creature and hit her hp instead and everything will be fine.
| wiggin | 2010-01-18 22:42:11 |
... except to oracle, the illusion changes are really immaterial
leave oracle a 9 damage creature and hit her hp instead and everything will be fine.
Not really.
| HeadphonesGirl | 2010-01-19 03:38:55 |
Not even close. Oracle's change is absurd to be sure, but the Hypnotist nerf is even more baffling and the assassin and mage nerfs are less severe since those creatures don't need to last a long time to perform their function, but they are still completely unnecessary.
| wiggin | 2010-01-19 09:08:00 |
I think that also the Asssassin nerf is very important. Yes, it deals some immediate damage, but if you want to win a game where the opponent doesn't just roll over, you really need it to stay in the table for a while.
| BadSeed | 2010-01-19 12:38:42 |
With the Illusion nerfs, you also have to take the Faerie Sage and Water Elemental (ok this one is really minor) nerfs into account...
Just saying, don't judge the Illusion nerfs in a vacuum. I think that a big part of it is also that they don't want the free class be in the upper tier, but rather in the lower tier (I don't think Illusion is the worst class by far after these changes), which makes sense from a business standpoint.
| Zannoland | 2010-01-19 19:45:15 |
I think that also the Asssassin nerf is very important. Yes, it deals some immediate damage, but if you want to win a game where the opponent doesn't just roll over, you really need it to stay in the table for a while. It's changed extremely little. assassin's vulnerability is only increased vs spells rounding up 24/3=8, 22/3=8 24/4=6, 22/4=6 24/5=5, 22/5=5 24/6=4, 22/6=4 24/7=4, 22/7=4 24/8=3, 22/8=3 24/9=3, 22/9=3 1v1 assassin's effectiveness is the same vs all creatures. only when spells, orc, minotaur, forest sprite are in play will the hp decrease matter, and even then, not always. this really is the lightest nerf concievable, at 23 hp there would be virtually no change his strength whatsoever - the only changes would be vs armageddon, a 7 hp creature+sweep could kill it one turn early, and acid rain would result in being killed one turn earlier in most circumstances. i would say the only situation in which this nerf truly matters is that assassin can no longer block dragon/chain. Modified by Zannoland on 2010-01-19 19:59:42 | wiggin | 2010-01-19 21:10:35 |
"Only when spells are played". You realise that's very often right?
Btw you forgot Fire Elemental, Hydra, Lightning Cloud, Titan, Wall of Fire, Goblin Berserker (his) and Bargul. And that's not even counting the special creatures.
Every time your Assassin used to end up on 1 or 2 life points, that would now make a huge difference, possibly deciding the game.
BadSeed > I agree with your point, that nerfing the sage helps illusion a little. Still, it is generally agreed among the top players that illusion is the weakest house (SeaLeta ranked it lowest in his thread.), although until now not problematically so. Modified by wiggin on 2010-01-19 21:23:48 | soldat12 | 2010-01-20 10:17:08 |
2 hp can be a big diffirience sometimes.
like you possibily alomsot always faced with situation when you have water8 and want to have board control you will play fire1 with that, or otherwise, if you suspect oponent has water8 and placing lots of berserks you could put earth3 or air1 to finish it.
lets analyze it from other hand. illu5 usually places against empty slot to keep pressure on the opponent. and this means that opponent will use 4 or 5 attack creature oposite assasin if he dont have big aoe liek earth9 or fire11. in that example this nerf really not doing much,
since assasin gonna live 3 turns anyway vs creature4 (4+4+4+9=21)
and gonna die in 3 turns vs creature5 (5+5+5+9=24)
so cards, which increased in value in regards of Illu5: are air1, earth3 or ifnerno.
also water8 allows to kill assasin now in 2 turns theoretically, (4+15+4=23) but in practise, there is not enough creatures that has 21+ hp (6+15) to stay at board after water8.
Modified by soldat12 on 2010-01-20 10:22:10 | wiggin | 2010-01-20 12:10:51 |
so cards, which increased in value in regards of Illu5: are air1, earth3 or ifnerno. Again, this is not complete. You people are considering far from every scenario with your calculations.
| soldat12 | 2010-01-20 18:20:54 |
well, i was talking mostly about most common cards (forgot inferno & air3 but such cards usually uses not so often, at least not vs illu5 in my experience)
| wiggin | 2010-01-20 19:06:02 |
Most cards are used regularly in high level matches. And really, there are still A LOT of cards that could cause the 2 points to make a difference. See the posts just before yours. You could record a game sometime, and watch how often creatures die before they are dealt the full damage necessary from the opposing creature. It's often.
And of course you can use inferno if the opponent has the assassin. Regardless if you give it 18 or 10 damage, the 2HP still could make a difference.
is it just me or is beastmaster 6 a little bit over the top? i mean, it practically reads "gain 45 life", while also beating for 8. as an added bonus, you get to cast mechanics 0 as long as he is in play Modified by filip on 2010-01-22 13:49:47 | Wavelength | 2010-01-22 15:07:15 |
is it just me or is beastmaster 6 a little bit over the top? i mean, it practically reads "gain 45 life", while also beating for 8. as an added bonus, you get to cast mechanics 0 as long as he is in play
I agree that it's overpowered, but not that it reads "gain 45 life", since every time you attack it, the opponent gains less life benefit from it. There are going to be very few cases where the creature doesn't take a fair amount of creature damage before saving 45 of your health. It would be a similar argument to saying that Forest Sprite reads "gain 22 life", which it doesn't. He'd still be very playable at 6 attack, I think.
| HeadphonesGirl | 2010-01-22 16:48:22 |
Beast 6 doesn't worry me a whole lot. In my experience he is very difficult to keep alive. He can be a great play against certain tactics but you need to be able to turn things around quickly.
I've never seen a scenario where his ability is useful. Usually if you play him it's in a similar way to ice guard--he can buy you time to turn the tables in a scenario where you'd otherwise get killed too fast. In that case you need to be doing things other than just getting more beast mana, like trying to kill the enemy. | Forgin | 2010-01-22 16:54:23 |
Anyone else thinks Beast 5 is an awesome rush card?
| Wavelength | 2010-01-23 01:31:17 |
Anyone else thinks Beast 5 is an awesome rush card? It's an awesome general-use card, including but not limited to rushes in my experience. It's like combining all the positives of Emissary of Dorlak and Bargul, with none of the negatives except a slightly higher cost. Plus you can move it around at will and get a free Wall of Flames for your time if the board position changes, which is incredibly valuable. I'm not suggesting any changes because this is one incredibly fun card to play with. But, it's really powerful compared to anything halfway similar.
| wiggin | 2010-01-23 05:00:22 |
Beast 5 is too big and strong for 5 special mana. Fun card though, I agree.
I agree that it's overpowered, but not that it reads "gain 45 life", since every time you attack it, the opponent gains less life benefit from it. There are going to be very few cases where the creature doesn't take a fair amount of creature damage before saving 45 of your health. It would be a similar argument to saying that Forest Sprite reads "gain 22 life", which it doesn't.
He'd still be very playable at 6 attack, I think.
It's not the same with any other creature, because you don't have to kill the Forest Sprite before killing your opponent. Other creatures you can ignore, placing attackers in different slots. You have to drain the Elephant's full health before reaching your opponent's life total. Perhaps you meant that it is expected of any creature to soak some damage by combat, so the net life gain is less than 45 since some of that damage would be soaked anyway. I can accept that, even though it is not always the case, especially if you place the Elephant in a slot with no opposing creature. | Wavelength | 2010-01-24 17:01:28 |
... It's not the same with any other creature, because you don't have to kill the Forest Sprite before killing your opponent. Other creatures you can ignore, placing attackers in different slots. You have to drain the Elephant's full health before reaching your opponent's life total. Perhaps you meant that it is expected of any creature to soak some damage by combat, so the net life gain is less than 45 since some of that damage would be soaked anyway. I can accept that, even though it is not always the case, especially if you place the Elephant in a slot with no opposing creature.
I know, that's why I said it's a similar argument... and yes, that's what I meant, that the life gain will, in general, be far less than 45. White Elephant could, in theory, save you 45 health, but Forest Sprite could, in theory, save you 22. Neither one is likely to happen. Obviously the fact that it's soaking damage for you from empty slots and spells helps tremendously at the end of the game; still, I don't feel th card is overpowered or unfair.
| mrgsport | 2010-01-24 20:27:54 |
I honestly feel like the elephant is the most situational card that deck has and as a result is also probably the least played card in the deck for me. Obviously I'm new to beast master so I'm probably totally wrong, but I don't find much use for it if I'm ahead, certainly not if I'm 1 mana away from Basilisk (the best card in the game that isnt dragon)
| Zannoland | 2010-01-24 20:44:47 |
...
I know, that's why I said it's a similar argument... and yes, that's what I meant, that the life gain will, in general, be far less than 45. White Elephant could, in theory, save you 45 health, but Forest Sprite could, in theory, save you 22. Neither one is likely to happen.
Obviously the fact that it's soaking damage for you from empty slots and spells helps tremendously at the end of the game; still, I don't feel th card is overpowered or unfair.
My problem with the card is that it will eat an entire spell. If you cast armageddon at the guy when it has 6 hp left it will eat the entire spell, whereas if you throw armageddon at a wall of reflect with 6 hp you take 6 damage. how is this fair? the card is a zillion times better than ice guard, and ice guard is amazing. The card would not bother me if it didn't absorb the entire hit that killed it. Modified by Zannoland on 2010-01-24 20:47:48 | garcia1000 | 2010-01-25 02:36:27 |
Basilisk is sooooo good At least against computer!
I, uh, will try and play some multiplayer later I guess
White Elephant is a monster, also, he's like a 22.5 power rejuvenation that also does 8 damage to guys Also if you cast beast 6, water 6, you can basically never need to oppose opponent creatures?
Modified by garcia1000 on 2010-01-25 02:37:42 | wiggin | 2010-01-25 09:01:33 |
White Elephant is a monster, also, he's like a 22.5 power rejuvenation that also does 8 damage to guysAlso if you cast beast 6, water 6, you can basically never need to oppose opponent creatures? Yeah, he is like that.
| mrgsport | 2010-01-25 16:14:59 |
I agree with zanno that there is no reason for the elephant to absorb an entire spell if he does not have that much life left. Regardless, he is really not that good of a card...fix zanno's issue and I think he is fine as is. Having great synergy with ice guard is just 1 possible combination. There are plenty of other 1 2 punches that need to be addressed before elephant and ice guard (cough: dragonandanyothercardinth egame :cough)
| AlexanderFrei | 2010-01-27 23:16:50 |
Where can i dl it?
| Wavelength | 2010-01-28 15:55:00 |
I agree with zanno that there is no reason for the elephant to absorb an entire spell if he does not have that much life left. Regardless, he is really not that good of a card...fix zanno's issue and I think he is fine as is. Having great synergy with ice guard is just 1 possible combination. There are plenty of other 1 2 punches that need to be addressed before elephant and ice guard (cough: dragonandanyothercardinth egame :cough) There is a reason to have the Elephant absorb the entire spell: precedent. If a Bargul attacks a creature with 2HP, the remaining 6 damage doesn't "trample" onto the player. That 2HP creature just saved its owner from 8 damage. That's the way it works. Find some cheap way to kill the white elephant (maybe choke it 'til it turns blue, then shoot it with a blue elephant gun), and then use your spell.
| Zannoland | 2010-01-28 19:46:15 |
...
There is a reason to have the Elephant absorb the entire spell: precedent. If a Bargul attacks a creature with 2HP, the remaining 6 damage doesn't "trample" onto the player. That 2HP creature just saved its owner from 8 damage. That's the way it works.
Find some cheap way to kill the white elephant (maybe choke it 'til it turns blue, then shoot it with a blue elephant gun), and then use your spell.
Wall of reflect sets an opposite precedent, but I suppose pretty much every single precedent set by the illusion deck is being trampled on with the new classes so what else is new?
| Wavelength | 2010-01-28 19:55:04 |
... Wall of reflect sets an opposite precedent, but I suppose pretty much every single precedent set by the illusion deck is being trampled on with the new classes so what else is new?
Good point about Wall of Reflection. There's definitely an inconsistency between that and White Elephant. EDIT: Still, a simple change in wording on Wall of Reflection (deal an amount of damage equal to the amount that Wall of Reflection lost) would eliminate the inconsistency, and I feel like both cards are pretty well balanced anyhow. Modified by Wavelength on 2010-01-28 20:18:16 | SeaLeta | 2010-02-01 08:58:47 |
if i used sorcery5 a wall attacks it.
this shall be modified.
| SeaLeta | 2010-02-02 06:42:52 |
when destroy demon creater, keeper of death = gain, death mana
but when destroy demon creater, demon6 = can not gain, fire mana
this shall be modified.
| Wavelength | 2010-02-02 15:33:53 |
when destroy demon creater, keeper of death = gain, death mana but when destroy demon creater, demon6 = can not gain, fire mana this shall be modified.
Good point SeaLeta. I feel whenever a Demon Creature dies and becomes another creature
(Demon 1, 5, and 7), the effects of Keeper of Death, Hellfire, and
Steal Essence should take effect, based on the way the cards are worded
(and also because it is the simplest, most intuitive method, which
means less confusion when people are trying to remember whether or not
a certain play might be a really bad move). | Kaylee | 2010-02-03 05:11:45 |
I disagree. They should be consistent, of course, but I don't think they should boost mana for either situation. The cards should be reworded to eliminate the confusion, though. "When this creature's hp is reduced to zero, creature transforms into X". I didn't think the creatures were actually dying, just changing forms. Does death 7 completely kill demon creatures, or does it just eat through one of their forms? It seems weird to me that tornado doesn't completely remove a demon creature, but rather only eats through one of its forms. However things work out, I think death 7 and Tornado should behave the same way. Either they should both eat through an entire demon creature, or neither card should. Either both should be able to kill phoenix, or neither should.
Modified by Kaylee on 2010-02-03 05:13:59 | Wavelength | 2010-02-03 16:33:16 |
I disagree. They should be consistent, of course, but I don't think they should boost mana for either situation. The cards should be reworded to eliminate the confusion, though. "When this creature's hp is reduced to zero, creature transforms into X". I didn't think the creatures were actually dying, just changing forms.
Does death 7 completely kill demon creatures, or does it just eat through one of their forms?
It seems weird to me that tornado doesn't completely remove a demon creature, but rather only eats through one of its forms. However things work out, I think death 7 and Tornado should behave the same way. Either they should both eat through an entire demon creature, or neither card should. Either both should be able to kill phoenix, or neither should. See, that would be a fine solution too. I think of Demons as "two creatures for the price of one" rather than "one big creature which transforms function halfway through", which is why I feel the effects should kick in, but either way would be better than what we have now. As long as something isn't ridiculously imbalanced, consistency becomes most important. ( UpperDeck, take notes! =) ) Destroying a creature could have different mechanics than killing it
(i.e. reducing its life to zero), but any card that says "destroy" a
creature needs to have the same effect on a specific creature as
another card that says "destroy". Additionally, the Demon creatures that do this are pretty powerful already and could use a bit of an Achilles Heel. Demon 1, 5, and 7, while not absurd, are all really good.
| garcia1000 | 2010-02-04 15:36:00 |
Hey guys,
I try to play online with my beta 1.1 but it says version mismatch. Where is the latest version?
| Wavelength | 2010-02-04 16:54:01 |
I had the same problem and asked it already in the other thread. Erickiller said "check the main page. There's an updated .exe file. Not sure what the changes are but it gets you online." It worked.
I unfortuantly have the Greenhouse version. Can I download the 1.1 here and drop in my .dat file?
| HeadphonesGirl | 2010-02-04 21:28:16 |
I had the same problem and asked it already in the other thread. Erickiller said "check the main page. There's an updated .exe file. Not sure what the changes are but it gets you online." It worked. Wow what is it about me that causes people to always think I am someone else | Wavelength | 2010-02-04 22:04:43 |
... Wow what is it about me that causes people to always think I am someone else
Oops... I've thought that for a while... (to be fair you have a similar real name, region, and age as Erickiller, who has many successfual Alts)... are you an Alt at all?
Modified by Wavelength on 2010-02-04 22:05:51 | garcia1000 | 2010-02-05 02:07:21 |
I had the same problem and asked it already in the other thread. Erickiller said "check the main page. There's an updated .exe file. Not sure what the changes are but it gets you online." It worked. I'm really bad at computers, do you have a link to the exe file? I can't find it at all on the main page | Estarh | 2010-02-05 13:19:47 |
I'm really bad at computers, do you have a link to the exe file? I can't find it at all on the main page
You can download again beta version setup file (it is updated) and reinstall beta version.
| HeadphonesGirl | 2010-02-05 23:53:44 |
...
Oops... I've thought that for a while... (to be fair you have a similar real name, region, and age as Erickiller, who has many successfual Alts)... are you an Alt at all?
I was teekay before this. And I don't mind at all, it's kinda funny! (and generally flattering since usually I am mistaken for people who are better than me.) people have confused me with kaylee too. Modified by HeadphonesGirl on 2010-02-05 23:54:34 | garcia1000 | 2010-02-06 14:09:39 |
I can't find the link to download the beta setup file. Do you have a link?
| walkindude | 2010-02-06 14:48:13 |
I can't find the link to download the beta setup file. Do you have a link? look in the "new version is available for testing" thread. the link is in the first post.
| Wavelength | 2010-02-08 05:01:22 |
I think someone mentioned that Faerie Sage should have its capped set at 12, and I refuted their opinion. I want to say, I'm starting to think I was wrong. I love that Faerie Sage was capped, but 12 might be the fairest number to set it at.
| garcia1000 | 2010-02-09 01:56:03 |
Hey guys here is another problem, I successfully downloaded the file and went into the multiplayer, but it was empty! Is there something wrong with my settings?
| HeadphonesGirl | 2010-02-09 04:18:53 |
No, there just aren't very many people getting online with the beta, unfortunately. :(
| modxxxx | 2010-02-17 02:04:28 |
problems with 1024x600 resolution, On netbook asus eee 1000 it automatically set to 1024x768(and wish to add wide screen resolutions and netbook resolution support) u may open game.ctl file by notepad and change vidmode value. its works for me ( change 6 for 1366 * 768) | 
