Ok, as still very much the noob player with a whopping 50 games to my name online, so very limited paying expierence. I have to disagree with the devs on what constitutes healing. From reading some of the threads if I remember correctly, there are about 3 to 4 cards such as Ice Golem and Ice Guard that count as healing and your "guarenteed at least 1 "healing" card per deck.
I have read many a thread where the damage done and the effects of a card get specific as the the words used in the descriptor which has be baffled at to how they classify some cards as healing. Even in the loosest use of the word healing, to heal something to repair/make better than what the condition is, these cards do not do that. Taking "less" damage is not the same as repairing damage. Even worse, the 2 listed above "healing cards" are both in the same house. Granted it's the devs game and they make the rules, but if to me it's very misleading to call them healing. If I'm in a bar fight and the other guy promises to only hit me 4 times a minute instead of 8, I'm still not getting any better.
Am I missing something in the "healing" aspect of these cards?
| wiggin | 2010-02-07 15:15:59 |
The devs are not "calling them healing". They have made the algorithm, so that each player is assigned certain cards. Exactly one basic sweep, two cards that help your life total in some way, no stone rain + meditation, etc. It's only us players who call them healing cards, because its easy to say. Feel free to call them something else. Ice golem doesn't count in the group of cards that helps your life total in some way, btw. Modified by wiggin on 2010-02-07 15:16:58 Thanks for the info.... Corrections noted. On that point then, I think every deck ought to have some form of direct healing, but like I said, I'm 50 games into this game, what do I know yet.
| Wavelength | 2010-02-07 17:25:37 |
Ice Guard is one of the most useful healing cards in the game. Having direct damage reduced is just as good, if not better, than actual healing.
You're not guaranteed to get two healing cards; I've heard rumors that one healing card can be drawn (though it's extremely rare) and "confirmed" it once. Note that it's not rare to get three healing cards (even without counting any Special cards you get).
So it's exceedingly rare (maybe 1 in 25000) to get only the Ice Guard as your basic "healing" card; you'll almost always have at least one direct heal. And even if he is your only basic "healing" card, maybe you'll pick a healing card up as one of your Special Cards (if I remember correctly, Holy, Chaos (by far the best heal out of Special cards), and Death have cards that can heal you; in the Beta, Demonologist 7 is a very indirect heal and Beastmaster 6 works like a short-lived 100%-Protection Ice Guard).
In order of their ability to keep you alive (as opposed to anything else they do), I'd rank the healing cards in this order:
1) Faerie Sage (drops to #3 in Beta, where its heal is currently capped at 10)
2) Nature Ritual (if you've got Insanian Peacekeeper, it ranks right around here)
3) Ice Guard
4) Elven Healer
5) Rejuvenation (can be great or nearly useless depending on the game flow)
6) Master Healer (Big drop-off from #5. Death 7 and Divine Intervention rank around here)
7) Water Elemental (all other Special heals rank below here)
If you've got Faerie Sage + Rejuvenation, your deck will most likely lend itself to play a long "arms race" game with tons of global destruction cards (like Stone Rain and Armageddon) and mana hoarding. Most of all you need to horde your Earth mana.
If you've got Water Elemental + Master Healer (extremely slow healing) or Water Elemental + Ice Guard (dangerous because both your heals are in Water), it will usually be very important to try to gain Board Advantage early on (Golems, Turtle, Troll, Elementals, etc.). In general you won't want to use Meditation, Merfolk Apostate, any mana-gainer cards (besides Elementals), or Faerie Apprentice. Any "quick kill" cards (like Lightning Bolt, Dragon + any direct damage, Insanian Berserker, Armageddon, or, very situationally, Wall of Reflections or Call to Thunder) help massively. If your opponent gains board advantage and you don't have cards that can score a quick kill, it becomes nigh unwinnable. Having said that, don't get so desperate that you set yourself up for global destruction when you put a bunch of mid-level creatures out there.
| undefeated | 2010-02-07 18:07:25 |
Modified by undefeated on 2010-02-07 20:04:29 | HeadphonesGirl | 2010-02-07 19:48:51 |
It's also worth noting that there are many games where you have healing cards and never need to use them. The better you get the less likely you are to be playing long drawn out games, which makes ice guard probably the most useful.
| garcia1000 | 2010-02-08 02:34:45 |
Ice Guard, Nature Ritual and Faerie Sage are the most useful healers for me. Although tbh healing is pretty much the last thing I look at, instead I look at "how can I kick his ass".
The reasoning is that kicking his ass is a good way of winning a game.
Also, as you get better at winning those 1-turn games, you'll be less scared of having a low life total.
Modified by garcia1000 on 2010-02-08 02:35:11 | Zannoland | 2010-02-08 04:12:38 |
Ice Guard is one of the most useful healing cards in the game. Having direct damage reduced is just as good, if not better, than actual healing.
You're not guaranteed to get two healing cards; I've heard rumors that one healing card can be drawn (though it's extremely rare) and "confirmed" it once. Note that it's not rare to get three healing cards (even without counting any Special cards you get).
So it's exceedingly rare (maybe 1 in 25000) to get only the Ice Guard as your basic "healing" card; you'll almost always have at least one direct heal. And even if he is your only basic "healing" card, maybe you'll pick a healing card up as one of your Special Cards (if I remember correctly, Holy, Chaos (by far the best heal out of Special cards), and Death have cards that can heal you; in the Beta, Demonologist 7 is a very indirect heal and Beastmaster 6 works like a short-lived 100%-Protection Ice Guard).
In order of their ability to keep you alive (as opposed to anything else they do), I'd rank the healing cards in this order:
1) Faerie Sage (drops to #3 in Beta, where its heal is currently capped at 10)
2) Nature Ritual (if you've got Insanian Peacekeeper, it ranks right around here)
3) Ice Guard
4) Elven Healer
5) Rejuvenation (can be great or nearly useless depending on the game flow)
6) Master Healer (Big drop-off from #5. Death 7 and Divine Intervention rank around here)
7) Water Elemental (all other Special heals rank below here)
If you've got Faerie Sage + Rejuvenation, your deck will most likely lend itself to play a long "arms race" game with tons of global destruction cards (like Stone Rain and Armageddon) and mana hoarding. Most of all you need to horde your Earth mana.
If you've got Water Elemental + Master Healer (extremely slow healing) or Water Elemental + Ice Guard (dangerous because both your heals are in Water), it will usually be very important to try to gain Board Advantage early on (Golems, Turtle, Troll, Elementals, etc.). In general you won't want to use Meditation, Merfolk Apostate, any mana-gainer cards (besides Elementals), or Faerie Apprentice. Any "quick kill" cards (like Lightning Bolt, Dragon + any direct damage, Insanian Berserker, Armageddon, or, very situationally, Wall of Reflections or Call to Thunder) help massively. If your opponent gains board advantage and you don't have cards that can score a quick kill, it becomes nigh unwinnable. Having said that, don't get so desperate that you set yourself up for global destruction when you put a bunch of mid-level creatures out there. you are pretty wrong about water elemental, divine intervention, and master healer. they are *that* not significantly worse than the rest of the heal cards, their weakness is that you trade speed for power. once you drop the first water elemental you can heal up every 5 turns in addition to the elemental you summon. master healer is not great at healing players, however the creature healing makes it much more difficult to slot break, getting you out of an extremely large amount of what i can really only describe as "theoretical damage". i'd put divine intervention at #1, and for good reason: divine intervention isn't a good heal card by itself, however it's an absolutely insane heal card if you transfer the extra mana into healing. it has lost a lot of synergy with faerie sage, because of the 10 life cap, and this is a pretty solid nerf on holy that I hope balances the class out. however you still can have a permanent ice guard on the battle field, and you can get your earth so miraculously high that rejuvenation can win you the game outright. not to mention the very basic concept that accelerating mana means you get stronger creatures down which means you hold stronger board presence and thus take less damage in the long run. your rankings seem to be heavily skewed in favor of what i view as "emergency healing", in that they can prevent immediately you from dying. however the lower ranked cards on your deck often generate far more HP, directly or indirectly, in the long run.
Modified by Zannoland on 2010-02-08 04:14:37 | Wavelength | 2010-02-08 04:58:06 |
you are pretty wrong about water elemental, divine intervention, and master healer.
No I'm not. they are *that* not significantly worse than the rest of the heal cards
Yes they are. In terms of their ability to keep you alive. their weakness is that you trade speed for power.
Yes you trade speed for power (which is downright toxic if you don't have an additional speedy heal), but you also trade spammability (frequency) for power. Water Elemental (+10 and nice blocking) can be played once every five turns, IF it survives that long. Master Healer can be played once every eleven turns. Divine Intervention can be played once every five turns, and you're losing a creature slot every time you play it. None of these cards are bad (on the contrary, MH and DI are great), because they do other things, but they need to be alongside other good heals or you're going to face an uphill battle. master healer is not great at healing players, however the creature healing makes it much more difficult to slot break, getting you out of an extremely large amount of what i can really only describe as "theoretical damage".
Right, and this is the reasoning behind giving Nature Ritual an extremely high slot, despite the inability to play a creature; healing one of your creatures can prevent you from taking direct damage from an attack. And yes, Master Healer is the best card for that out of all of them that I listed. However, when you can only play it once every ELEVEN turns, and when it may already be too late by the time you get it out, it becomes a worse card for the purpose of keeping you alive. It's actually a really good card (like Hydra) for maintaining Board Control, IMO. i'd put divine intervention at #1, and for good reason: divine intervention isn't a good heal card by itself, however it's an absolutely insane heal card if you transfer the extra mana into healing. it has lost a lot of synergy with faerie sage, because of the 10 life cap, and this is a pretty solid nerf on holy that I hope balances the class out. however you still can have a permanent ice guard on the battle field, and you can get your earth so miraculously high that rejuvenation can win you the game outright. not to mention the very basic concept that accelerating mana means you get stronger creatures down which means you hold stronger board presence and thus take less damage in the long run.
Divine Intervention + Rejuvenation means an extra 4HP per use, which isn't so wonderful, given that you're losing significant board control by using it (unless you're playing a Phoenix strategy, in which case this combo is the Bee's Knees). Divine Intervention + Faerie Sage (pre-Beta) was great, but only because Faerie Sage is so great. Certainly you can't put Divine Intervention at #1, because it relies on an even better card to be good at keeping you alive. Read what I wrote in my list one more time. This is not about gaining Board Presence, it's about keeping you alive. Yes, Board Presence helps that, but not enough to compensate for weak direct healing. your rankings seem to be heavily skewed in favor of what i view as "emergency healing", in that they can prevent immediately you from dying. however the lower ranked cards on your deck often generate far more HP, directly or indirectly, in the long run.
How so? Nature Ritual and Faerie Sage are general use cards, not emergency healing. Elven Healer (unless combined with Ice Guard) is often the exact antithesis of emergency healing. Same with Insanian Peacekeeper. Despite what some may say, Elven Healer is a great card to play early in the game, so long as you've got some decent global destruction. A lot of comments on "long" games. I'm not opposed to longer games, actually gives me more time to assess how a game is going and to learn more as I see the other player make more moves.
Right now I seem to start out of handling the first and mid third of the game "ok", but towards the last third of the game I just seem to get lost. In fact lately, I seem to have lost 2 - 4 games even with 4:1 or 5:2 board control with decent cards out. Like I posted in another thread, I'm gonna farm the forum today and layout out a "playboo" of tips to see where I might be going wrong. If I was losing close games I wouldn't mind so much, but to be ahead and lose, I screwing up somewhere.
| wiggin | 2010-02-08 14:08:20 |
How do you lose that board control? It sounds to me like you are overcomitting, and maybe getting hurt by mass destruction. We can take a training if you are online on the beta.
How do you lose that board control? It sounds to me like you are overcomitting, and maybe getting hurt by mass destruction. We can take a training if you are online on the beta. I'll fire up the beta tonight. To answer your question, yes, the board sweeps (one more round of Divine Justice will have me postal) are affecting me and mana management is hurting. There are a few cards I have trouble with handling when they are used against me, Troll, Hydra and Phoenix (with their fire at 10) and no tornado. Their high life and regeneration seem to have me baffled. Maybe I'm not setting myself up in a way to combat them.
I fell like I'm close to "getting" the basic game but it's elluding me. I typically start with the mana generators or some other type prep card. ????
| undefeated | 2010-02-08 15:43:54 |
There are a few cards I have trouble with handling when they are used against me, Troll, Hydra and Phoenix (with their fire at 10) and no tornado. Their high life and regeneration seem to have me baffled. Maybe I'm not setting myself up in a way to combat them.
Yes, these cards are difficult to kill, but that is the point. A lot of the mana someone invests in them is about how hard they are to kill, so you don't try to kill them. Instead, try to beat the opponent faster in open slots with investing mana other ways. It especially helps that Hydra and turtle take earth mana, which is needed for healing. Sometimes, as soon as i see them played (and earth mana is low), and their live is mid-low, I go right in for the kill. You will also beat Phoenix by going for open slots and trying to race to beat the opponent first, because all the opponents life is tied up in fire mana. Also, you can kill troll with stone rain, but I wouldn't do it unless he has something else too because 6 damage a turn isn't that bad. In addition, you can tornado Hydra. Speaking of hydra, it's my favorite card to put across from a phoenix.
| undefeated | 2010-02-08 15:53:55 |
There are a few cards I have trouble with handling when they are used against me, Troll, Hydra and Phoenix (with their fire at 10) and no tornado. Their high life and regeneration seem to have me baffled. Maybe I'm not setting myself up in a way to combat them.
Also, sometimes I put an elemental across hydra if I know it'll be a long game, and that the opponent will not kill me too quickly if I do. Once it gets big enough, it'll kill the hydra quite quickly. also, it is a good safe spot to put a astral gaurd, especially if u have master healer out. Also, cards like turtle, mech 5, and two holy gaurds next to each other are good ways to deal with hydra attacks because they will take very little or no damage from hydra. Modified by undefeated on 2010-02-08 15:55:15
... Yes, these cards are difficult to kill, but that is the point. A lot of the mana someone invests in them is about how hard they are to kill, so you don't try to kill them. Instead, try to beat the opponent faster in open slots with investing mana other ways. It especially helps that Hydra and turtle take earth mana, which is needed for healing. Sometimes, as soon as i see them played (and earth mana is low), and their live is mid-low, I go right in for the kill.
You will also beat Phoenix by going for open slots and trying to race to beat the opponent first, because all the opponents life is tied up in fire mana.
Also, you can kill troll with stone rain, but I wouldn't do it unless he has something else too because 6 damage a turn isn't that bad. In addition, you can tornado Hydra.
Speaking of hydra, it's my favorite card to put across from a phoenix.
Thanks for the tips. By the time I play the 3 big sweeps, gedden, acid rain, and stone rain, I down thir cards but I seem to be in worse shape for it as well. Coming back after those 3 is also where I need work. It just occured to me that Divine Justice is the same, any sweep spell that deals me hard damage I I have no come back plan afterwards.
| undefeated | 2010-02-08 16:07:52 |
... Thanks for the tips. By the time I play the 3 big sweeps, gedden, acid rain, and stone rain, I down thir cards but I seem to be in worse shape for it as well. Coming back after those 3 is also where I need work. It just occured to me that Divine Justice is the same, any sweep spell that deals me hard damage I I have no come back plan afterwards.
With troll , a dragon cahin lightning , titan, or just any big creature can be good. Or even lgihtnin wall. Trying to kill them often doesnt work out with mass destructin, though sometimes it does. back to back stone rains, stone rain + geddon, or control 5 + stone rain can take down some big guys, but just watch out for a nature ritual or archangel. About coming back, you may wanna do a huge rejuvanation before, or fairy sage. Also, I wouldn't waste 2 stone rains for one hydra. Modified by undefeated on 2010-02-08 16:11:13 | garcia1000 | 2010-02-09 01:58:05 |
Right now I seem to start out of handling the first and mid third of the game "ok", but towards the last third of the game I just seem to get lost.
I wouldn't be so fast to assume so. For a less experienced player it's really hard to tell whether you are doing ok in the opening or doing badly. I mean, it's certainly possible that your opening is ok and it's some errors later on, but it's just as likely that it's your opening that is causing you problems. | garcia1000 | 2010-02-09 02:01:24 |
I'll fire up the beta tonight. To answer your question, yes, the board sweeps (one more round of Divine Justice will have me postal) are affecting me and mana management is hurting.
It just occured to me that Divine Justice is the same, any sweep spell that deals me hard damage I I have no come back plan afterwards.
It sounds like you are over-committing. If you play against the computer a bit, you'll notice that when he has two or more creatures on the board than you, often the computer will stop playing more monsters and do meditation/overtime/holy 5 and stuff like that instead. The reason is that it saves him mana if you field wipe, and if you try to play creatures instead he can just play more. | Noctilucus | 2010-02-09 09:19:32 |
Another possibility could be that you're often casting mid-class creatures from each class, rather than saving up in some class(es).
Board sweeps will then remove most of your creatures and leave you with little mana in each class.
| Wavelength | 2010-02-09 18:44:11 |
It's a good thing to vary your creatures when possible, as long as it doesn't severely impact the strategy you're trying to pull off. Mix up cheap creatures (Golbin Berserker, Merfolk Apostate, Elven Healer), mid creatures (Troll, Bargul, Ornithopter), protection creatures (any Golem, Phantom Warrior, Turtle to some extent), big creatures (Ancient Giant, Steam Tank, Dragon, Titan, and the elementals to some extent), and high value creatures (Mind Master, Astral Guard, Mana Gainers, Insanian Shaman, etc.) as much as possible. This makes it hard for your opponent to take your entire game down with one or two spells.
| undefeated | 2010-02-09 20:13:47 |
Modified by undefeated on 2010-02-09 20:57:07 |
