| Floofy | 2013-07-08 18:02:22 |
New class: Fear
This class is designed to induce fear and doubt in your opponement. There is no way for him to know what will happen when an evil puppet will die.
Passive: Fear mage's special power is hidden
1: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, your creatures are healed 4 life.
2: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, it respawns in the opposite slot, destroying any creature in there. this effect happens once.
3: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, opponement's lowest life creature also dies.
4: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, your creatures takes no damage until their next attack.
5: Evil Puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, all creatures gets 27 damage.
6: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, all opponement creatures except the one in the opposite slot gets 20 damage.
7: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, you gain 4 to all elements, including fear.
8: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, you and your creatures gets 13 life, opponement and his creatures gets 13 damage.
| RedRook | 2013-07-08 18:44:05 |
I don't want to discourage you, but I think have a few too many Class Suggestions going at the moment. It's great that you have all these cool ideas & that you are sharing them, but you may want to slow down a little - focus on one class at a time. This forum moves a little slow, the Class Suggestions section in particular. Classes take a while before they are hammered out in their best form - Class Suggestions can take weeks of work, sometimes even a month or more before a class is "complete". You have cool classes & I always enjoy seeing new ideas & Class Suggestions, but I might recommend a more focused approach on each individual class. But never stop working on classes! It is a lot of fun. Now, for this class I will need more time before I give a full critique, there is a lot to consider. This is a unique approach & I applaud your creativity! But I see two issues here - the two are somewhat connected. Since the Evil Puppet has a low attack & all of the abilities trigger on death, the opponent's best option may be to simply ignore the creature, or block it with a Wall of Lightning, Wall of Reflection, or a Forest Sprite or something, to prevent or slow down the effect arrival - taking 3 damage per turn from an unblocked creature is not huge deal most of the time. Now, this might force YOU as the Fear Mage to kill the Puppets yourself with either mass spells or cars like Bargul & Goblin Berserker to make them trigger. The opponent's ability to force YOU to kill the Puppets might make the strategic use of these cards a little strained. That being said, probably the best way to play this class would be to summon the Puppets opposite to opponent creatures. But that requires you to relinquish control of the board, letting the opponent set up for rushes more easily. Perhaps you could explain your strategic vision of this class? How do you see this class working in play? What are your hopes & design set to accomplish? Also, here is a class created by Sinist that is somewhat similar to your idea, look it over & see how he worked it - maybe you will find some inspiration there! http://www.spectromancer.com/forum.cgi#pageid=3257Thank you for your class suggestion.
Modified by RedRook on 2013-07-08 18:50:42 | Floofy | 2013-07-08 19:04:08 |
Hey RedRook, thanks for the in depth reply. First of all, i just want to make it clear my intent is not to spam the forum with boring classes i made in 5 minutes. Its actually stuff i take time to think about, and carefully try to balance by looking at other cards. Of course, in order for these classes to be real good classes that can be implemented into the game, it would surely take more time, and i also realize my ideas aren't always good! My main objective is to be original, and even if my classes probably won't be picked, it can maybe help people get ideas. With my class Vegetal, i just kind of gave up... i think my idea was original, but just flawed. Barbarian i have not really had comments, so can't work on it yet. But i think it was a good idea. Now about your comments for this class: Well honnestly a good player isn't going to put Fear 8 on an empty unblocked slot, that would be kind of stupid. Of course you will want to put the evil puppets against creatures which will most likely kill them. But also keep in mind the opponement doesn't know which evil puppet it is... i don't think you can just keep all evil puppets alive. At some point you will need to block some of them, and you will also need to use spells, etc. Another solution could be to modify evil puppet into a better creature, like 5/19, and have negative effects for the cheaper versions. Overall, the main idea of this class was to be unpredictable, and surprise your opponement. However, i like Sinist's class, its also a very elegant way to do an unpredictable class :) Modified by Floofy on 2013-07-08 19:06:14 | RedRook | 2013-07-08 22:45:42 |
Bienvenue. I always enjoy working with Class Suggestions. Oh, I don't think you're class-spamming at all, & I can tell you put thought into the classes you make. They are original & interesting for sure! I do like the unpredictable aspect of the class, that is really cool. Another solution could be to modify evil puppet into a better creature, like 5/19, and have negative effects for the cheaper versions.
That could work, so long as the negative effects are not passive or come-into-play like Sea Sprite or Bargul, else it would just give the card away to the opponent. I think as long as the base attack is at least 4, the unblocked issue we talked about would be less of an issue. See what others think about the class too. I'll try to get to this class soon, & your Barbarian class too.
Modified by RedRook on 2013-07-08 22:49:51 | Wavelength | 2013-07-10 19:44:48 |
First of all, let me say I absolutely love the concept. It would bring in a second element of reading your opponent's intentions. "He really needs that mana... I think he played Fear 7? Or did he bluff, and decide to save Fear 7 for next turn's summon?" The implementation needs some more thinking, though it can definitely be done. First of all you need to come up with a way to display information that the player already knows. "Fear Power is hidden" could be unfair and annoying because it requires the opponent to track and memorize information all match. Instead, perhaps have a running total of the opponent's total Fear Power accumulation, subtract the amount of Fear power you KNOW they used (because the card's effect triggered), and display that, along with the number of cards on the board that were cast from that mana, so the opponent can at least make educated guesses. For example, on Turn 10 the opponent's Fear mana displays " 13 - *3* " meaning 13 total mana accumulated, and 3 unknown-cost creatures on the board. On your turn, you kill one of the creatures, which happens to be a Fear 2. Their next turn, they gain one more Fear mana and it will read " 12 - *2* ". (which is 13 - 2 + 1) On your next turn, you kill another creature, a Fear 7. They get 4 mana back, plus one more on their turn, so it reads "10 - *1* " (which is 12 - 7 + 4 + 1). If you don't like that, try to come up with a better way to display it. Additionally, change all the names. You want them to be evocative and easy to discuss. They could all read "Evil Puppet" or "???" or something while they're on the board and their effects have not been revealed, but the opponent should be able to look at your cards, for example, and see which creature you have if they've already killed it. Finally, I don't know if it's wise, conceptually, to make every card into a "When Evil Puppet dies" effect. While I get that you're trying to keep the effect hidden the entire time the creature is on the board, I think Red explained some of the different things you can do to hard-counter the class. In practice it wouldn't be EASY to hard-counter the class, but it would be doable. Consider making some of the cards' effects trigger after a set number of turns, or if a certain condition is fulfilled. When your opponent has to figure out whether you played the card that deals damage after 4 turns of survival, or the card that raises your mana when it dies, they have to make a very real and immediate decision to either go after the card or leave it alone, and they have to make that decision based on what they know about your play. Since I think there's lots of room for changing around the qualitative nature of these cards, I'm only going to look at the balance for the moment: 1) A little underpowered; compare to Paladin or Crusader. An on-death heal is much less reliable than an on-summon one. 2) If I'm reading this right, it's a delayed TORNADO that gives your opponent a measly 3/12 as a consolation prize? Way overpowered. 3) Feels almost like a creature attached to a Chaos Bolt, since they'd be good at the same kinds of times. In general play it would be pretty weak, but there are times it could be killer, which I think is a good quality for a card in this class. 4) The only way this card is useful is with your own Global Destruction, and then it's a little overpowered. It's way too hot-and-cold, dependent on your draw, rather than the game situation. A better way to work the card would be, if you had other cards in the class that did not have an instant effect, to have the effect only protect your creatures from opponent's spells, effects, and creatures. Which seems weak at first glance, but if there are other creatures in this class whose effects don't activate right away, the opponent won't know whether the effect is in play or not the turn after they kill one of your Evil Puppets with no immediate effect. The bluffing potential would be enormous! No one wants to waste their sweep for no effect, or Stone Rain only their own creatures! 5) The most interesting use of the card would be to try to time its death right after your Fear 4 dies. That would certainly be powerful. Besides that, I guess it's okay balance-wise. The converted mana cost wills about equal to Stone Rain, and there will be times you want the creature there instead of blowing the board sky high immediately. 6) Could have some interesting combos with Fear 3. The best comparsion is Cannonade, which makes this card look slightly weak but in the right ballpark. 7) Way too powerful. At the very least you need to ratchet the number down to 3. You could even go a little farther than that, maybe do 3/3/3/3/2 mana, or 2/2/2/2/4. Compare Sacrifice. 8) An appropriately powerful effect for a Cost 8 card attached to such a weak creature. Comparing to Hellfire, Angel of War, or Sonic Boom, though, my instinct is that the number should be closer to 11 than 13. Nice job with this class, and looking forward to seeing some more work on it! I'd love to see it in the game. This review based off the following version of the class:Passive: Fear mage's special power is hidden
1: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, your creatures are healed 4 life.
2: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, it respawns in the opposite slot, destroying any creature in there. this effect happens once.
3: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, opponement's lowest life creature also dies.
4: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, your creatures takes no damage until their next attack.
5: Evil Puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, all creatures gets 27 damage.
6: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, all opponement creatures except the one in the opposite slot gets 20 damage.
7: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, you gain 4 to all elements, including fear.
8: Evil puppet 3/12. When evil puppet dies, you and your creatures gets 13 life, opponement and his creatures gets 13 damage. | Floofy | 2013-07-10 22:14:58 |
Hey wave, thanks for the great analys, its always fun to see someone comment your class, especially with this much thought :) First of all, about the mana, i guess i somewhat agree with you, but your solution isn't very elegant. A solution i might think of is that when evil puppet die is when the number actually gets substracted (at least thats what opponement would see). So if i got 7 fear power, and use fear 7, i will see 0 mana, opponement will still see 7 mana, but once fear 7 dies then it will substract. I guess you ain't wrong about the names... never been good at finding names thought but i can try to find good ones. Changing the effect to something else than just "when it dies" is an idea, but are you sure spectro can do thing like "after 4 turns", there does not seem to be a mecanic for this. 1) agreed, maybe i can increase it to 6 2) U might be right its overpowered, but i think its not as overpowered as u think. Keep in mind a delayed tornado is already way worse than a real tornado, and we are giving a creature to the opponement for free. Maybe cost 3? 3) :) 4) Even thought ur idea seems good i think its hard to implement... maybe this one should take the fear 2 effect instead :P 5) :) 6) :) 7) Here i disagree...i actually based this card on sacrifice. Sacrifice cost 4 special mana. this one works a bit like angel, with a real cost of 3, but require 7 ressource. So i would say the special mana cost is, in a way, similar. And then, this one gives u 3 more elemental ressource, but its delayed. Maybe its bad design of a card.
Overally i think its a bit of a gamble card... if you can get the effect going, whitout dying or loosing too much board control, you get a huge edge. 8) remember its delayed thought. Modified by Floofy on 2013-07-10 22:16:03 | Wavelength | 2013-07-11 07:25:48 |
Okay, I see what you're saying. Angel is 8/42, and costs 4 + "stockpiling" 3 extra mana. Emissary of Dorlak is 7/45 and costs 4 + a sacrifice. By this logic, the stockpile actually is a bigger cost than the sacrifice (I'm surprised at this!), and Fear 7 should therefore return more mana than Sacrifice does. It's a solid argument. It still might be a bit too much, and here's why: Dorlak fills a unique strategic spot in Death's hand: rushability. No other card in Death can rush, meaning that the card is valuable to have even if the creature seems a bit underpowered for its "cost". Four extra house mana is a really big deal. Sacrifice (the sorcery spell) leaves you with a glaring board opening, since you lose one creature (Dorlak is a net change of zero creatures). Fear 7 won't do that; the creature might be more valuable here. Finally, the "delay" on your top Fear cards should be a lot less, since they can be played opposite really big creatures, unlike the lower Fear cards which will come out early. With all that being said, 3 mana in each house feels like the sweet spot to me on that card. Modified by Wavelength on 2013-07-11 22:08:57 | srbhkshk | 2013-07-12 10:11:18 |
One thing I will like to point out is that since the opponent has no idea what is going to happen on killing a card of this class, it's more difficult playing against this class and as such the cards should be weaker than the normal special houses, as of now they are about the same which probably makes the class overpowered.
| 
